Did the Christian god create evil?

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:54 am

Correction. He created your universe. My universe was not created by your god. My gods are different than your god. I think that if your god needs entertainment, like you said, then your god is not above petty human beings at all. Humans need entertainment too.

In my religion human can be petty and so can gods, but both beings are valued.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by dattaswami on Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:57 am

gillyflower wrote:Correction. He created your universe. My universe was not created by your god. My gods are different than your god. I think that if your god needs entertainment, like you said, then your god is not above petty human beings at all. Humans need entertainment too.

If you created your universe then you could have full control over anything in this world. You cannot even stand for a long time under scrotiching sun? You cannot even find cure for Aids if it attacks. You cannot prevent death, then how can be you be God?

When God derives entertainment by seeing the movie 'universe', you are also enjoing like you enjoy, good food, good family, friends etc. The entertainment of God is not selfishness, but your entertainment is self oriented, Hence the entertainment of GOd and human beings cannot be equaled at any cost! You are affected by the entertainment, God is not affected by entertaiment!

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:08 am

I did not say I created my universe. Where did you get that?

I did not say that I am a god, much less Yahweh.

If your god is enjoying something himself that he created for himself, then his entertainment is self-oriented, yes? Otherwise he would be showing his movie to other gods.

I don't know why you think portraying us as dancing puppets on a movie screen to entertain your god would be an attractive view of your god or humans.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by dattaswami on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:13 am

gillyflower wrote:I did not say I created my universe. Where did you get that?

I did not say that I am a god, much less Yahweh.

If your god is enjoying something himself that he created for himself, then his entertainment is self-oriented, yes? Otherwise he would be showing his movie to other gods.

I don't know why you think portraying us as dancing puppets on a movie screen to entertain your god would be an attractive view of your god or humans.

You are critisising that God created this world for His own entertainment. It is not only your view point most of the people think like that. But it is not the truth. You shall know the truth.


People often blame God stating that they are troubled since God created this world for
His entertainment. They say that God is a sadist because He is entertained by
their suffering. This is shear non-sense. God created this entire world consisting of the souls. Souls constitute Para Prakruti, which is a part of the creation. He gave complete freedom to the souls and gave the intelligence (Buddhi), which is the powerful faculty of discriminating good and bad. God propagated His constitution, which contains clearly the subjects of good and bad.

The prophets propagated this constitution on this earth. Now if God is deriving entertainment on observing the creation, how can you call Him as sadist? He is not responsible for your desires and selection of good and bad for which you have the full freedom. He is not responsible even for a trace of your desire and even for a trace of your subsequent action. The constitution gives only information and does not
encourage you in anyway. A hotel is exhibiting a board listing the various
items available for the food. The board is only for your information. According to your taste, capacity of digestion and problems of health, you have to select the suitable item of food. You cannot blame the hotel saying that the hotel is responsible for your indigestion, since it exhibited a particular item by which you are attracted! A person is standing in the balcony of his residence and is observing the traffic to get entertainment. Suppose an accident took place on the road, you cannot blame the observer to be responsible for the accident. You are well aware of the traffic rules and
your over look of the rules is responsible for the accident.

The observation and entertainment of any spectator is not at all connected with the accident. The divine constitution consists of two parts. The first part is the Pravrutti, which is the social behavior to live in this world with peace and harmony. This Pravrutti is based on heaven, earth and hell, which are plus, zero and minus signs respectively. If you do social service helping the poor people, you will get heaven, which is a temporary pleasure proportional to the extent of your sacrifice in the social service. For this, you will receive the result on the earth also either partially or totally.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:15 am

Sounds like a pretty shitty god to me. I'll pass on my life experience being for entertainment purposes.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by dattaswami on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:17 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Sounds like a pretty shitty god to me. I'll pass on my life experience being for entertainment purposes.
This is exactly what i am referring to in the above post. People think that God is cruel.
Some ignorant people think that God is doing all this for His entertainment only and therefore He is cruel. Without the primary aim which is the upliftment of devotees, the aspect of entertainment is not present. If you say that only the aspect of upliftment
should be there without the aspect of entertainment, which is only accidentally
associated, that shows your sadism or intolerance of enjoyment of others even
if there is no loss to you.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:28 am

I thought you were the one saying your god created the universe for his entertainment.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:30 am

He did say that.

Then he went on to post a long copy of something someone else wrote and pasted all over the web.

I really think that the post needs to be edited, dattaswami. If you like I will remove your post for you?

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:32 am

Dattaswami said "God is the creator of this entire universe which includes both good and bad. And is is untouched or unaffected by both. He created the entire universe for His own entertainment and He watches the universe as a cinema. In a cinema we see both good and bad and we are in actual do not affected by both."

Sounds like Dattaswami think his god created his universe for his own entertainment to me. That is not my world view.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:37 am

Nope, mine either.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:58 am

I've been thinking lately about all the odd world views that people have to explain life. It's like my kids and Santa. Santa was why presents showed up on Christmas morning. He absolutely delivered them. They believed this with all their hearts. That didn't make it true of course. It was just something they believed. I don't think it harmed any one for them to have a world view where Santa existed and was taking note of the things that they did and once a year delivered a couple of presents.

Grown ups do the same thing IMO. They concoct these elaborate world views and they believe them absolutely. That doesn't make their world views any more factual than kids believing in a Santa god who delivers presents.

I am okay with anyone believing their world view no matter how ridiculous I think it is, right up until they start harming other people. If they make women wear special clothing and give them no education or stone men to death or kill girl babies or try to force through bills that harm people who aren't of their religion - that's when their beliefs come into conflict with the rights of others and those are very bad ethics that must be stamped out for the good of the human race IMO. It's not okay to use your religious world view to hurt other people.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:24 am

Of course I agree. You're free to think whatever you want, but when you start invading other's rights and freedoms it's time for you to go.

Of course the dilemma is what exactly is invading... the Christian college clubs that kicked out gays had two opposite court decisions; is forcing a pro-life agenda religious or just moral in general? It gets tricky. At least in the US, we have a supreme court and we keep it on its toes.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:18 am

dattaswami, I think you have acquired the typical "brainwashing" christian dogma that the typical fundamentalistic believer has. You believe you are "speaking for yourself", but in reality, you are only spouting what your own faith TEACHES you to believe. And what they TEACH you to believe isn't actually true. If you took the time to actually read your Bible,....WITH an open mind...., you will find that you have been deceived by that which would actually be called "evil".

Let me respond to one thing you stated:
"But whoever loves Him more He shows the love in return." Sounds nice and fuzzy, doesn't it? What the actual TRUTH is, . . . those who DON'T "love him", are tortured/killed/destroyed . . .etc. . . . That is an UNETHICAL and IMMORAL petty narcissism that is primative. If you wish to follow such things, go ahead, . . . but don't be surprised when people don't see your "morality", . . . . when they see that it obviously isn't.

You may do better on some other strictly chistian forums.
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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:23 am

I don't actually think that dattaswami is Christian. I think that he has created his own religion.

http://www.universal-spirituality.org/

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:57 am

Ah yes, and once again it's time to convert us to the Religion of the Day

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by dattaswami on Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:02 pm

gillyflower wrote:I don't actually think that dattaswami is Christian. I think that he has created his own religion.

http://www.universal-spirituality.org/

I do not belong to any particular religion. I belong equally to all religions. Infact I am not religious but spiritual. Religion is like a medium of instruction and spirituality is the curriculum. One can get doctorate degree through any medium and a doctorate will be respected by all over the world equally. Thus we should pursue to reach higher levels in spirituality in our own religion. Nobody need not change his religion. Change of religion is moving horizontally and moving to higher classes in spiritual curriculum is moving
vertically, which is only called growth. Spirituality is beyond religion. Infact
any true divine preacher never confined to any one particular religion, caste,
creed etc, because all require God.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:16 pm

I think that it is impossible to belong to all religions equally or indeed at all. You certainly don't belong to my religion. Your beliefs would prevent that. Therefore that is an untruthful statement although the one before it is probably true, that you don't belong to any religions.

It's okay to claim yourself spiritual but not religious, but if you do, why bother to claim to belong to any religion like you do?

Not all doctorate degrees from any source are respected equally, not at all! Just ask anyone who applies to teach at the university level.

"Spirituality is beyond religion." is an opinion without either defining spirituality or religion. Why don't you define your terms so this makes sense?

What's your gods name? There are so many of them I'm uncertain of the one you happen to follow.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by dattaswami on Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:44 pm

gillyflower wrote:I think that it is impossible to belong to all religions equally or indeed at all. You certainly don't belong to my religion. Your beliefs would prevent that. Therefore that is an untruthful statement although the one before it is probably true, that you don't belong to any religions.

It's okay to claim yourself spiritual but not religious, but if you do, why bother to claim to belong to any religion like you do?

Not all doctorate degrees from any source are respected equally, not at all! Just ask anyone who applies to teach at the university level.

"Spirituality is beyond religion." is an opinion without either defining spirituality or religion. Why don't you define your terms so this makes sense?

What's your gods name? There are so many of them I'm uncertain of the one you happen to follow.

For this to understand you must understand between what is religion and spirituality first. Every Religion in this world wants you to get rid of bad qualities at least from today for the admission into that religion which is practically impossible. The reason is that these bad qualities were grown like hills for the past millions of births. This small
human life is insufficient even to move them, not to speak of removing them. People
can control the bad qualities to some extent by their efforts. These bad qualities are frequently sparking in the minds of even the most pious sages. If one says that he is good and he is devoid of all the bad qualities, it only cheating others, which in turn is cheating oneself. Due to this practically impossible condition, for the religious admission, people have developed allergy towards any religion because the eligibility for admission is
impractical.

The religious preachers have confused the whole situation by fusing religion and spiritualism. Religion is the context of GOD to establish peace and justice in this world. In this context, you must control your bad qualities so that you will not disturb the
peace and justice and will not harm any good person in this world. If you disturb the world by your bad qualities, God will punish you. But, in this context, it is sufficient if you control the bad qualities since you cannot remove them. The Religion ends here. Some religions strictly end here without any spiritualism.
The spiritualism is the context in which you have to make efforts to reach God. In
this context, you need not even control your bad qualities because, God has no personal objection towards your bad qualities. These bad qualities cannot be obstacles in any manner in this context. Moreover, when you turn these bad qualities towards the God, they become your helpers. Any quality whether good or bad, is created by God only to help you in reaching Him. If you realize the original aim of all these qualities, good or bad, why should you control these qualities, which are with you as a helper? No fool controls his helpers. So, any quality when involved in spiritualism is used for its original aim, it
becomes a good quality. So all your qualities become good in spiritualism and
you need not put any effort to remove or even control them. When the qualities are not used for their original purpose, they become bad qualities. Therefore, whatever qualities turned towards the world, are bad qualities. In this spiritualism, there is no need of
any effort even to control these bad qualities.
.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:56 pm

What is GOD? What is your gods name? You keep using the term without defining the term.

My religion does not exist to establish peace and justice in this world. It is a framework for interaction with the gods.

My gods will not punish me if I "disturb the world" with my actions. The consequences for my actions are good enough for my gods. This is how I learn.

"Bad" and "good" are judgments. What is considered bad in one situation might well be considered good in another. They are not qualities.

There is a need in every culture for a person to conform to that culture's laws, something which is subject to change over time. One must modify one's behavior in order to follow the laws of the land. For example, once it was lawful to prevent people of color from using certain rest rooms reserved for whites. Then it became against the law to restrict people of color from using the same rest rooms as whites. Some people believed it was good to restrict the rest rooms, some people thought it was bad. Judgments.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by john5180 on Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:02 pm

See guys? I warned ya about feeding the trolls. Now we gotta get a litter box.
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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:24 pm

This guy is full of crap. He talks about not having a "religion", but a "spirituality". Sorry, but regardless of what LABEL he wishes to apply to it, . . . if he is talking about "God and the SON of God", he is refering to Christianity MOSTLY. The way he reads, though, is so incoherent that it makes him sound even more bizarre.

I would like to know the answer to the question, "What is your god's name" as well. Quit beating around the bush!
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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:56 pm

john5180 wrote:See guys? I warned ya about feeding the trolls. Now we gotta get a litter box.

I'm not sure we can find a big enough litter box.

I can sure tell y'all that I'm not scooping it if we do!
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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by dattaswami on Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:14 pm

gillyflower wrote:
My religion does not exist to establish peace and justice in this world. It is a framework for interaction with the gods.
That is your belief. All your belief need not be the truth. God is the embodiment of peace. He always want His children to be in peace. He tries for world peace in this world, by coming in human form and preaching the divine knowledge to all alike.

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by dattaswami on Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:18 pm

DeavonReye wrote:"What is your god's name" as well. Quit beating around the bush!

No word can indicate God. But for the people in this world who cannot understand these concepts then the word 'God' is used. God comes to this world in human form so that people can see Him, talk to Him and co-live with Him and clear all their spiritual doubts.

God comes in human form to this world by entering the most
deserving devotee existing on the earth that point of time; known as 'Son of
God'. God enters and resides in Him all the time when He is alive in this
world, It is like a live wire carrying current. When you touch the live wire
the shock is experienced. Like wise the 'Son of GOd' is the most deserving
devotee chosen by God to do His mission of divine knoweldge propagation in this
world. The son of GOd has fully surrendered to God so that God is very happy to
stay in Him for the mission of divine knoweldge propagation to people. Thus in
effect it is the God who speaks through the Son of God and give credit to the
Son of God. It is the God who does the miracles and give credit to the Son of
God, since Son of God loved God that much and God is very much pleased with
Him.
Thus when Son of GOd is alive in this world He is the very
God since God alone acts through Him. Thus whoever see the Son of God alive
here, has seen the invisible God present in Him. Thus whoever has served Son of
God has served the invisible God. God is impartial and He comes down in Human
form in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls and He is
known as Human incarnation.
The Son of God are Jesus, Krishna, Bhudha, Mohammad etc etc....

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Re: Did the Christian god create evil?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:36 pm

If you post quotes from other people or places on the web as your own, they will continue to be removed.

God is not a name. It is a classification of spiritual beings. Most gods have a name. Have you heard of the Unknown God? The Greeks honored the Unknown god in place of all the gods no one knows about. Could we rightly then call your god the Unknown god since no one seems to know about it?

I take it that you are the most deserving devotee of your Unknown god and now you are the Son of the Unknown God?


Last edited by gillyflower on Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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