Name of Abrahamic God

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:21 pm

Hey, John made a point about what exactly is regarded as taking a deity's name in vain, usually the Abrahamic one, so we're still on topic with this digression.

A Christian's objecting to someone's using God or Jesus (or even "bloody" since that's a contraction of the phrase, "By Our Lady," i.e. Mary) as a swear word does have the right to ask the person not to use those names that way, something with which most well-mannered people would agree since it's highly impolite generally speaking to use curse words in society where you don't know who might be offended. That's one thing that bothers me immensely about public cellphone use. I've been subjected to I can't recall how many one-sided phone conversations while shopping or waiting for a restaurant seating that were f-this, f-that until I wanted to interrupt the person and ask them to go somewhere where I didn't have to hear them.

Interestingly, a lot of Jews typically use "Jesus!" or "Jesus Christ!" when swearing. I remember asking hubby (who rarely swears...far less than I do for sure) why that name, and his explanation was that it's not technically a violation of the commandment when it's not your deity although any decent Jew would never EVER do this around people who might be Christian.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DeavonReye on Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:12 pm

Dave, . . . please tell me your reasoning/evidence for your stance that "speaking, typing, etc. your god's name" is something that said deity specifically doesn't want anyone to do. Thank you.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:10 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:Hey, John made a point about what exactly is regarded as taking a deity's name in vain, usually the Abrahamic one, so we're still on topic with this digression.

A Christian's objecting to someone's using God or Jesus (or even "bloody" since that's a contraction of the phrase, "By Our Lady," i.e. Mary) as a swear word does have the right to ask the person not to use those names that way, something with which most well-mannered people would agree since it's highly impolite generally speaking to use curse words in society where you don't know who might be offended. That's one thing that bothers me immensely about public cellphone use. I've been subjected to I can't recall how many one-sided phone conversations while shopping or waiting for a restaurant seating that were f-this, f-that until I wanted to interrupt the person and ask them to go somewhere where I didn't have to hear them.

Interestingly, a lot of Jews typically use "Jesus!" or "Jesus Christ!" when swearing. I remember asking hubby (who rarely swears...far less than I do for sure) why that name, and his explanation was that it's not technically a violation of the commandment when it's not your deity although any decent Jew would never EVER do this around people who might be Christian.

In the Judaism 101 link that I posted earlier (I think it was on that page, might have been another) what I found very interesting about how the Jews (or those on that particular website) interpret taking a name in vain. They say you shouldn't use the deity's name in order to lie to or cheat another person, as in "As Yahweh (or the deity of your choice) is my witness, I did not steal this" when the person did the crime.

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:51 pm

gillyflower wrote:
In the Judaism 101 link that I posted earlier (I think it was on that page, might have been another) what I found very interesting about how the Jews (or those on that particular website) interpret taking a name in vain. They say you shouldn't use the deity's name in order to lie to or cheat another person, as in "As Yahweh (or the deity of your choice) is my witness, I did not steal this" when the person did the crime.

Oh, yeah...the Catholics when I was growing up would definitely agree with that. Any lie or deception is bad enough but calling on God along with it makes it a sin against not one but two commandments, one of which (the no taking name in vain one) is a whopper!

Dunno these days, but way back when using even a saint's name in that manner was a huge no-no. And the saints are definitely lower tier compared with any of the Trinity or the BVM [Blessed Virgin Mary].
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:55 pm

Btw, hubby corrected me about Jews using Jesus as a swear word. They DO NOT generally, he said (somewhat huffily), and wanted to know where I got that idea.

Okay...I take it back. Obviously, I misunderstood something said who knows when.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by john5180 on Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:28 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:Btw, hubby corrected me about Jews using Jesus as a swear word. They DO NOT generally, he said (somewhat huffily), and wanted to know where I got that idea.

Okay...I take it back. Obviously, I misunderstood something said who knows when.

My late wife (who as I said before was Jewish) used to try using some good old fashioned Catholic swearing. Stuff like Jesus, Mary and Joseph! when exasperated, or when she questioned someone's incredibly stupid comments she'd use Christ and the 12 disciples. (like how in the name of Christ ect.. did you come up with that dumb assed idea?!) I would laugh at her at the time and advise her that although she had all of the words right, somehow the rhythm seemed all wrong. She'd turn beet red, and sit in a huff. Crossing cultural lines can be a bit tricky sometimes, as it seems you found out today.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:58 am

john5180 wrote:Crossing cultural lines can be a bit tricky sometimes, as it seems you found out today.

Oh, yeah, definitely. Makes me wonder how much of what I've said about Jews and Judaism is woefully mistaken...oops! Embarassed Prolly a good idea to have your salt shaker handy when I start pronouncing about them.
:::::::::: steps sheepishly off her know-it-all soapbox ::::::::::

Your late wife's Christian-themed cussing difficulties remind me of when I was a high school teacher and would occasionally overhear a foreign exchange student practicing American English cussing. A good many of their efforts were quite funny although I had to pretend I'd heard nothing and keep from laughing unless the student was a bit too public about it.

Cultural influences can be powerful, and what you're used to you tend to do automatically.

I once observed a sweet Japanese exchange student looking quite confused (It was a tiny speech class, only about 8 students) so I didn't feel I'd embarrass her terribly by asking her what the difficulty might be. Her English was quite good, but Americans use so many idioms that our speech can be a real challenge for foreigners.

She explained that in Japan it's regarded as an insult for a student to ask a teacher a question when the student doesn't understand something the teacher has said. Doing so implies that the teacher isn't doing a good job and is a matter of causing the teacher to "lose face." Teachers are FAR more respected there than here, so this is a very serious thing in Japan.

This began what proved to be a really interesting discussion about cultural differences, and she was thrilled to learn that she had my permission to interrupt me at any point to ask me to explain anything she didn't understand.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by WhiteHart on Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:17 pm

After some research, my personal opinion is that the name of the Abrahamic god is Agni. An Indic deity, he is primarily concerned with proper sacrifice and is a fire deity, both of which are quite applicable to the earliest writings about Yahweh. Also, as it happens, one of the Angi's epithets is .... Yaveh. It signifies movement and becoming. Also applicable.

Why do I think this? Because it is well known that in Egypt, indeed, the Levant, a group of people were known to swear by the Indic deities. They were called the Mitanni. It would be an easy transition for Mitanni to be Midani..and then Midian.

A few hundred years of mixing with Sumerian, Egyptian and Canaanite beliefs and peoples, and you have something like the Hebrews early religious beliefs. Some people have, in fact, tried to match Judaism with Sumerian belief, Egyptian beliefs, Canaanite beliefs and with Vedic (Indic/Hindic) beliefs, all with only partial success. Probably because the system isn't just a one on one match, but a synthesis of all four which then evolved on its own once it became connected to a single group of people.
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