Name of Abrahamic God

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Name of Abrahamic God

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:42 pm

This is a very interesting article about the name of the Abrahamic god. It seems that it is by custom because it says that there is nothing in the Torah about not saying or writing any of the many names for their god that they have. There is a commandment not to deface the name. Jehovah and Yahweh are unlikely to be it. So they say no one knows the name of the god but they know many names of the god. I've learned a lot today. Here are the highlights:

• The name of God should be treated with respect
• God has many names in the Bible
• A Name should not be written, so it will not be discarded disrespectfully
• The most important name is the four-letter name
• The pronunciation of the four-letter name is unknown


http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:19 pm

That is interesting. I can't say as I understand, but interesting.

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:39 pm

Especially since it was just some MEN who came up with these names. It isn't as though they can be proven to BE any deity's name.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:58 pm

• A Name should not be written, so it will not be discarded disrespectfully

Yep. In fact, hubby's family won't even use any of the Names except in prayer. Otherwise, they refer to God in speech as Hashem which is the familiar name for the deity that is specially for ordinary reference.

Anything unusable that has holy words on it, words that might include a name of God, is supposed to be brought to a synagogue or temple where there is a special box for collecting worn out or otherwise unusable holy items. Once the box is full, it is buried by a rabbi as respectfully as if it were a person's body.

As with much of Jewish law, I myself find all this unbearably laborious, but that's the point. God places much responsibility for doing things certain ways upon His chosen people, so Jews believe.

However, someone has yet to explain to me why keeping kosher is a maybe yes, maybe no thing. My in-laws are scrupulous about it at home but eat whatever they like in restaurants. That REALLY does not make any sense to me, but that's what they do. There aren't that many kosher places to eat out even in NYC which I found surprising as many Jews as there are there. The explanation is that those who keep strict kosher rarely eat out, and those who don't or do at-home-only like my in-laws probably wouldn't keep a kosher restaurant in business. There are some delis and pizza places, but that's about it, probably because lots of people take home sandwiches or pizza.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:47 pm

I didn't realize that keeping kosher was a yes now, no later type of thing. ???

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:16 pm

Me neither, SG, but then I figured that it was probably because I grew up Catholic with parents who were strict about the food taboos. There was no question but that you observed them.

What I can't figure out is why it's okay to be super-strict at home but eat anything from pork to shellfish when you go out. When they come to visit us, my FIL typically hints that he'd love me to serve shrimp cocktail at least once.

Hubby doesn't get it either. He says he thinks it ought to be do or don't. If you don't want to keep kosher, then you pay no attention to it at all. If you say you're keeping kosher, then you do so as best you can EVERYwhere. He dated an Orthodox girl for a while, he said, but could never take her out to eat except in the few kosher eateries or some Muslim ones that were strict enough to be acceptable. Mostly, her parents would invite him to dinner, or she'd be invited to his home. Her family wouldn't eat anywhere else but at their synagogue, kosher eateries approved by their rabbi or at the home of friends who were equally strict. They didn't even eat at some family gatherings because various relatives weren't as scrupulous as they.

I've known one or two Jews who did their best to honor the spirit of kosher (usually avoiding all forbidden foods and trying not to obviously mix meat and dairy) when eating out in areas where there were no kosher establishments. However, a Jewish co-worker some years ago would not do that even. The only time he'd eat whatever he was served was when he was invited to dinner at someone's home. In that case, he explained, if they didn't ask what he could or couldn't eat, it was permissible to eat whatever was served in order not to appear to disdain hospitality offered by those not expected to know what the law demanded.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:03 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:Me neither, SG, but then I figured that it was probably because I grew up Catholic with parents who were strict about the food taboos. There was no question but that you observed them.

What I can't figure out is why it's okay to be super-strict at home but eat anything from pork to shellfish when you go out. When they come to visit us, my FIL typically hints that he'd love me to serve shrimp cocktail at least once.

Hubby doesn't get it either. He says he thinks it ought to be do or don't. If you don't want to keep kosher, then you pay no attention to it at all. If you say you're keeping kosher, then you do so as best you can EVERYwhere. He dated an Orthodox girl for a while, he said, but could never take her out to eat except in the few kosher eateries or some Muslim ones that were strict enough to be acceptable. Mostly, her parents would invite him to dinner, or she'd be invited to his home. Her family wouldn't eat anywhere else but at their synagogue, kosher eateries approved by their rabbi or at the home of friends who were equally strict. They didn't even eat at some family gatherings because various relatives weren't as scrupulous as they.

I've known one or two Jews who did their best to honor the spirit of kosher (usually avoiding all forbidden foods and trying not to obviously mix meat and dairy) when eating out in areas where there were no kosher establishments. However, a Jewish co-worker some years ago would not do that even. The only time he'd eat whatever he was served was when he was invited to dinner at someone's home. In that case, he explained, if they didn't ask what he could or couldn't eat, it was permissible to eat whatever was served in order not to appear to disdain hospitality offered by those not expected to know what the law demanded.

Okay, that last one I get, but I would think restaurants would be another thing all together. Glad I don't have to worry about it, I guess.

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:30 pm

I'm REALLY glad. It gives me the willies worrying that I'm going to do something wrong at my in-laws.

They have a whole set of dishes, cookware and utensils for meat and another of each for dairy. The dishes and flatware are different patterns so that they won't be confused. Of course, everything is stored in entirely separate cupboards and drawers to avoid confusion and possible contamination. My MIL uses mostly red plastic cooking utensils for meat and blue ones for dairy. Even the kitchen sink sponges are different colors as are kitchen towels.

The microwave has to be thoroughly cleaned after you've cooked either meat or dairy so as not to contaminate the other.

And for Passover, they used to have two more sets for meat and dairy that were brought out only at Passover since nothing leavened can touch Passover dishes, cookware or utensils. Now, they go to one of the Catskill hotels so they don't have to mess with all that.

Just plain TOO complicated for me.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by john5180 on Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:18 am

I was once married to a Jewess whose family kept a Kosher home. Most of the dietary laws are simple common sense ideas. The prohibition of eating pork for example was due to meat spoilage, and diseases that one can get from eating rancid, or poorly cooked meat.

As far as the meat/dairy thing.... Jews don't believe it is proper to eat meat cooked in it's own milk, or in combination with. Think about how some gravies are made, strogonoffs for example, or where real butter comes from. There is a prohibition on shell fish as well. Again, storage is an issue. Toxins build up in crabs or lobster that die before being cooked and can be deadly even if not spoiled. Where clams or oysters are concerned, there is something referred to as "red tide" where water does not contain enough oxygen to sustain life, and people die even today from eating contaminated shell fish from those areas.

Mostly just common sense stuff today. Then it was a matter of life and death.

There are certain times when Jews are allowed to break these dietary laws. Dot pointed one out concerning eating out as a guest in a non kosher home. Another is if in the military and having to eat military rations like MRE's (meal ready to eat). Survival in a non kosher environment takes priority over the law.

It's complicated to a degree if you are on the outside looking in, but it isn't impossible to figure out. If you are raised in a Kosher home, it's even less complicated. If you marry into a Kosher family, and take an interest, most Jews will go out of their way to explain the system.

As far as calling the Abrahamic god by name..... According to Jewish custom, there are 72 names for this deity. Each serves a different purpose, and each shows a different face of the deity. I can't think of any real restrictions other than as Gilly and Dot explained, the names should always be used with respect and reverence.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:40 am

In mainstream Christianity, at least in the sects that I experienced, "God" is treated as the god's name and there is nothing wrong with saying or writing "God" or Yahweh or any other name for him. It is one of those customs that didn't get carried forth. I wasn't aware that there were any Christian groups that had adopted the Jewish customs, with the interpretation that Yahweh was the name of the god. Does anyone know where this percolated into being and in which Christian groups it is the custom? Dot, what about the Catholics?

Also, does anyone know if the Muslims have/don't have that custom, too?

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:51 am

The things you listed, John, are commonly believed today as reasons for the dietary laws. However, everything I've been able to find about them indicates that no one really knows how these restrictions were developed or why exactly.

Hubby says, "I think it was probably for health reasons, but that's just a theory."

As for the meat and milk issue, someone has yet to explain to me why you can't eat any red meat or poultry with dairy products of any kind, but you can eat chicken with eggs or eggs with milk since eggs are pareve (neutral). And why would something produced by a bird whose meat can't be eaten with dairy be a neutral food?
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by john5180 on Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:53 am

gillyflower wrote:In mainstream Christianity, at least in the sects that I experienced, "God" is treated as the god's name and there is nothing wrong with saying or writing "God" or Yahweh or any other name for him. It is one of those customs that didn't get carried forth. I wasn't aware that there were any Christian groups that had adopted the Jewish customs, with the interpretation that Yahweh was the name of the god. Does anyone know where this percolated into being and in which Christian groups it is the custom? Dot, what about the Catholics?

Also, does anyone know if the Muslims have/don't have that custom, too?

I've heard preachers use the term El Hashim (not sure of proper spelling) and there's another (I think and again not sure of spelling) El Elohim. Both are terms for the Abrahamic god, and have different meanings.... facets of this god's nature I suppose. Jehovah is another name for this god, as is Yahweh. The only ones I have ever heard of using Jehovah with any regularity though has been the Jehovah's Witnesses.

So far as Muslims go, the only name I've ever heard them use has been Allah. And Allah is the Arabic translation for god.

Why all the fuss over names?
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by john5180 on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:00 am

DotNotInOz wrote:The things you listed, John, are commonly believed today as reasons for the dietary laws. However, everything I've been able to find about them indicates that no one really knows how these restrictions were developed or why exactly.

Hubby says, "I think it was probably for health reasons, but that's just a theory."

And by and large I'd have to agree with your husband. My ex and I were married for only two years and after her death, I lost all contact with the in-laws and never had much more training on the subject than that. That explanation stuck out though, but honestly that's about all I remember.

DotNotInOz wrote:As for the meat and milk issue, someone has yet to explain to me why you can't eat any red meat or poultry with dairy products of any kind, but you can eat chicken with eggs or eggs with milk since eggs are pareve (neutral). And why would something produced by a bird whose meat can't be eaten with dairy be a neutral food?

I can't recall if my in-laws ever went into any detail on that either. Sitting here thinking about all of the dietary taboos though got me to remembering how my dad would have fits when I was a kid if I drank milk while eating seafood. It wasn't a religious thing.... He was a French Catholic, and I know of no Catholic restrictions on food...(at least of that type)

Just a funny custom he had, and the only time it really bothered me was when I wanted ice cream after eating fish. I solved the problem by not eating fish today.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:08 am

gillyflower wrote:In mainstream Christianity, at least in the sects that I experienced, "God" is treated as the god's name and there is nothing wrong with saying or writing "God" or Yahweh or any other name for him....Dot, what about the Catholics?

There was never any prohibition when I was doing the Catholic bit about saying or writing any name for God as long as it was used in prayer or spoken respectfully. In fact, Catholics have short little phrase prayers such as "Jesus, Mary, Joseph" or "Holy Mother, pray for me" where it's not only acceptable to use various names for God, Jesus and the saints but to chant the phrase repeatedly.

Among Catholics, it would be seen as rather peculiar to avoid spelling out any of these names or to refrain from saying them unless something has dramatically changed in the years since I was actively Catholic.

In fact, I was once taught by a nun that we show honor to God, Jesus, the Blessed Virgin and the saints by appealing to or thanking them by name just as it's honoring a person by using his or her name rather than referring to someone indirectly.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:14 am

john5180 wrote:
gillyflower wrote:In mainstream Christianity, at least in the sects that I experienced, "God" is treated as the god's name and there is nothing wrong with saying or writing "God" or Yahweh or any other name for him. It is one of those customs that didn't get carried forth. I wasn't aware that there were any Christian groups that had adopted the Jewish customs, with the interpretation that Yahweh was the name of the god. Does anyone know where this percolated into being and in which Christian groups it is the custom? Dot, what about the Catholics?

Also, does anyone know if the Muslims have/don't have that custom, too?

I've heard preachers use the term El Hashim (not sure of proper spelling) and there's another (I think and again not sure of spelling) El Elohim. Both are terms for the Abrahamic god, and have different meanings.... facets of this god's nature I suppose. Jehovah is another name for this god, as is Yahweh. The only ones I have ever heard of using Jehovah with any regularity though has been the Jehovah's Witnesses.

So far as Muslims go, the only name I've ever heard them use has been Allah. And Allah is the Arabic translation for god.

Why all the fuss over names?

Dave on the other thread asked me to not use the name of his god (which he said was Yahweh) because it was forbidden to say or write it. I have never run across a Christian with that taboo before and had thought it was one of the Jewish customs that Christians hadn't adopted along with the taboos about foodstuffs. Now I'm curious to see what Abrahamic groups do have taboos about the name(s) of their god and also if they know the name of their god or have decided on one for their sect.

I have to admit that the discussion about kosher (my neighbor also says that their is kosher behavior too I think) is fascinating!

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:17 am

DotNotInOz wrote:
In fact, I was once taught by a nun that we show honor to God, Jesus, the Blessed Virgin and the saints by appealing to or thanking them by name just as it's honoring a person by using his or her name rather than referring to someone indirectly.

Thanks, Dot, that is in line with what I thought.

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:22 am

john5180 wrote:Sitting here thinking about all of the dietary taboos though got me to remembering how my dad would have fits when I was a kid if I drank milk while eating seafood. It wasn't a religious thing.... He was a French Catholic, and I know of no Catholic restrictions on food...(at least of that type)

Just a funny custom he had, and the only time it really bothered me was when I wanted ice cream after eating fish. I solved the problem by not eating fish today.

That's weird, John. Wonder where he got that idea? I've never heard of any Catholic rule about that.

I don't recall there being any foods that Catholics weren't ever supposed to eat. Just specific days such as Fridays or times like Lent or Advent when you weren't supposed to eat certain foods and adults were supposed to eat a lot less than they ordinarily would unless they were sick or had some medical condition. I know that during Lent and I think Advent, too, when I was a kid, adults were supposed to have only one full meal per day, and the two others together were to equal a full meal with no snacking. Everybody ate no meat on Friday, of course.

There are lots of variations among Jews as to how quickly after eating meat you're allowed to eat dairy. Hubby's family wait only a half hour to have dessert and coffee containing milk. Other Jews I've known waited a full hour, and a few followed modern science that has demonstrated it can take as long as 4-6 hours for meat or dairy protein to be digested. Their theory is that if any might still be in your stomach, they won't eat the other until the next meal or next day.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:33 am

And yet they are all going to the afterlife's of their choice. Smile

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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:39 am

gillyflower wrote:I have to admit that the discussion about kosher (my neighbor also says that their is kosher behavior too I think) is fascinating!

Yeah, there are kosher behaviors, although I don't know what all that includes but for a few things. For instance, anything to do with running the home is regarded as the wife's responsibility. Interestingly, that includes managing any finances relating to home maintenance, including paying bills. Hubby jokingly says, "He provides the money, she spends it. What's so unusual about that?"

Most interestingly, IMO, it is a responsibility before God for a Jewish husband to do everything he can to assure that his wife has an orgasm. If she's not sexually satisfied, he has failed in his duty to God...no lie! That's even stated somewhere, hubby said, although I forget where. And it is regarded as particularly appropriate for a couple to have sex on the Sabbath since the day is to be reserved for rest and rejuvenation.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by john5180 on Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:51 am

gillyflower wrote:Dave on the other thread asked me to not use the name of his god (which he said was Yahweh) because it was forbidden to say or write it. I have never run across a Christian with that taboo before and had thought it was one of the Jewish customs that Christians hadn't adopted along with the taboos about foodstuffs. Now I'm curious to see what Abrahamic groups do have taboos about the name(s) of their god and also if they know the name of their god or have decided on one for their sect.

I won't get into that other than to say I saw the posts.... 'nuff said.

I have heard preachers using differing names for the Christian god..... I have some experience not just with Catholicism, but Pentecostals as well..... (my mother was a Pentecostal that married a Catholic. And if that ain't an Oprah subject, nothing is.) The Pentecostal ministers have used various terms, normally using these different names to denote a different facet of this god. So far as I know, there isn't any Christian taboos on using a proper name for their god. Perhaps in Dave's case, it's a self imposed restriction..... Who knows?

On the other thread, I mentioned a book you might be interested in. It's called The 72 Names of God by Yehuda Berg. It list not only the names, but circumstances why one would invoke them.

gillyflower wrote:I have to admit that the discussion about kosher (my neighbor also says that their is kosher behavior too I think) is fascinating!

Living Kosher goes beyond just the dietary laws given by Moses. I believe there is over 200 different laws pertaining to living Kosher. The best way to explain it is from something I read some time ago; What the Jewish way of life does by imposing rules on our eating, sleeping, and
working habits is to take the most common and mundane activities and invest them
with deeper meaning, turning every one of them into an occasion for obeying (or
disobeying) God.
'


So you see, it's more than just the diet..... It's a way of serving their god, and a way of life in general.


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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:10 am

john5180 wrote:It's complicated to a degree if you are on the outside looking in, but it isn't impossible to figure out. If you are raised in a Kosher home, it's even less complicated.

Actually, this is true and not true. Hubby's told me that he used to wonder if he was kosher enough at his Orthodox girlfriend's house because they were much more kosher than his family who were pretty strict at home.

There are so many variations in degree of strictness, too, that it can be difficult to know what's considered appropriate by someone.

For example, the Jewish co-worker I've mentioned was so strict about eating kosher (in a tiny town in southwest Kansas, fer heaven's sake, where there likely wasn't another Jew of any sort for over 100 miles!!) that he drove 200 miles into Wichita once a month or so to buy all his meat from the kosher butcher there. That was the closest one.

At the faculty Christmas breakfast each year, he'd bring his own omelet pan and ingredients rather than eat the scrambled eggs typically served, because even though it was okay to eat eggs scrambled with milk, the pans used to cook them weren't kashered (made kosher).

If you marry into a Kosher family, and take an interest, most Jews will go out of their way to explain the system.

Even if you're only interested and not family at all, most appreciate that you want to know what is proper and why and will tell you how they do things.

Mind you, you can't ever assume that what they do will be what other Jews do, because there can be a lot of variation even within a branch of Judaism. For instance, my MIL uses any food with a kosher symbol on the label and meats that are labeled "certified kosher." However, I've known Jews who would only buy foodstuffs with a particular kosher symbol indicating a specific standard of certifying the food which their rabbi considered appropriate. Hubby calls that sort of thing "more kosher than kosher."
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:36 am

Anybody who's interested in Jewish life may want to get a copy of How To Run a Traditional Jewish Household by Blu Greenberg, an Orthodox rabbi's wife.

That's where I learned a lot of things about strict kosher living. Her section on what all is done during the High Holy Days is especially fascinating, IMO--things such as leaving certain lights on and tearing sheets of toilet tissue off the roll and stacking them before the holiday begins. My in-laws do some of that but not anywhere near all.

Greenberg mentions that she has never knowingly eaten a forbidden food in her life. When she and her husband travel, they take their own food if possible or eat in kosher homes. There's a cross-country network of Jews who provide meals for those traveling who wish to be assured they're eating kosher where it would be difficult to impossible to do so otherwise. If she has no other option but to eat in a non-kosher restaurant, she said that she and her husband ask that a whole fish be placed in aluminum foil, tightly sealed and baked. It is then served to them still sealed and eaten on paper plates with disposable utensils.

My MIL said she's met the Greenbergs who are somewhat celebrities among Conservative and Orthodox Jews. She said she'd be surprised if they have to worry about where to eat or stay these days, since anywhere there are Jews, people would be scrambling over each other to host the Greenbergs.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:15 pm

john5180 wrote:
gillyflower wrote:Dave on the other thread asked me to not use the name of his god (which he said was Yahweh) because it was forbidden to say or write it. I have never run across a Christian with that taboo before and had thought it was one of the Jewish customs that Christians hadn't adopted along with the taboos about foodstuffs. Now I'm curious to see what Abrahamic groups do have taboos about the name(s) of their god and also if they know the name of their god or have decided on one for their sect.

I won't get into that other than to say I saw the posts.... 'nuff said.

I have heard preachers using differing names for the Christian god..... I have some experience not just with Catholicism, but Pentecostals as well..... (my mother was a Pentecostal that married a Catholic. And if that ain't an Oprah subject, nothing is.) The Pentecostal ministers have used various terms, normally using these different names to denote a different facet of this god. So far as I know, there isn't any Christian taboos on using a proper name for their god. Perhaps in Dave's case, it's a self imposed restriction..... Who knows?



I said as much ... I also said or implied that it wasn't the mere use of it so much as Gilly's use thereof; I had told her once before that I was personally bothered because although the restriction didn't apply to her; her over use of the name was to me taking it in vain; and she replied with a defensive retort about does that mean God wasn't there or some such.... this was originally not about a religious restrictiopn but me asking her to tone down her posts so that we could communicate- to me it was the equivalent of someone raised in household that never cusses trying to talk to someone who contantly drops "f-bombs"

somehow the explanantion by way of analogy susumed the original request or maybe my conversation was to muddled to be clear -if so - I hope this clears things up
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:32 pm

As I see the issue, if it's not your deity, then you can't take the name in vain, plain and simple. You must have subjected yourself not only to the deity but also to the rules about how one is to behave regarding the deity for "in vain" to apply. Doesn't apply to others, plain and simple.

As for what constitutes rudeness or being derogatory about someone else's deity/ies, that is a matter of etiquette and involves a lot of personal determinations regarding good or bad manners, I think. If someone's behavior in this regard offends, you either blow it off, get over it or ask for an apology (which may or may not be rendered.)

So, can this brouhaha be resolved so that we can get on with talking about other things, perhaps? Otherwise, Dave, this is beginning to seem to me like more of a control issue than anything else.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

Post by john5180 on Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:28 pm

Davelaw wrote:
john5180 wrote:
gillyflower wrote:Dave on the other thread asked me to not use the name of his god (which he said was Yahweh) because it was forbidden to say or write it. I have never run across a Christian with that taboo before and had thought it was one of the Jewish customs that Christians hadn't adopted along with the taboos about foodstuffs. Now I'm curious to see what Abrahamic groups do have taboos about the name(s) of their god and also if they know the name of their god or have decided on one for their sect.

I won't get into that other than to say I saw the posts.... 'nuff said.

I have heard preachers using differing names for the Christian god..... I have some experience not just with Catholicism, but Pentecostals as well..... (my mother was a Pentecostal that married a Catholic. And if that ain't an Oprah subject, nothing is.) The Pentecostal ministers have used various terms, normally using these different names to denote a different facet of this god. So far as I know, there isn't any Christian taboos on using a proper name for their god. Perhaps in Dave's case, it's a self imposed restriction..... Who knows?



I said as much ... I also said or implied that it wasn't the mere use of it so much as Gilly's use thereof; I had told her once before that I was personally bothered because although the restriction didn't apply to her; her over use of the name was to me taking it in vain; and she replied with a defensive retort about does that mean God wasn't there or some such.... this was originally not about a religious restrictiopn but me asking her to tone down her posts so that we could communicate- to me it was the equivalent of someone raised in household that never cusses trying to talk to someone who contantly drops "f-bombs"

somehow the explanantion by way of analogy susumed the original request or maybe my conversation was to muddled to be clear -if so - I hope this clears things up

Dave, I hope your sense of humor improves during the coming new year.... BTW, Happy New Year to one and all!

I said that I didn't then, and still do not believe Gilly was using your god's name in vain. As I understand the use of this particular term, it would be more accurately applied used in such manner as God damn it! or Jesus Christ!. These oaths are what the preachers always informed me was Taking the Lord's name in vain. In that respect, Gilly did none of these. She did not deny his existence, she did not suggest he was a lessor god than those she worships, and she never suggested that your god is false, or non-existent. The "Eddie Murphy/Robin Williams" crack could be considered in poor taste to a Christian, and an apology for offending might be in order, but this ordeal IMNSHO is belaboring the issue. It's tantamount to making a mountain out of a mole hill. (and you have the habit of doing exactly that from time to time, but generally after my anger subsides, I forgive you for that flaw in your nature.) Also, to avoid confusion in this case, you could have articulated your point somewhat better in the outset, and perhaps we could have avoided an issue that can affect (if not friendships at the least) the ability to conduct a decent conversation.

For my part, this pissing contest is not worth further discussion. The topic is interesting enough, but I would rather devote time in this discussion in coming to understand different cultures and customs.

You guys can take this where ever you want.... But I'm going to sit on the sidelines for now.
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Re: Name of Abrahamic God

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