Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Page 4 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:23 pm

There is a big difference too between believing in and trusting a god (Yahweh) and believing in and trusting a book (the Christian bible). Sometimes people forget that they aren't the same thing at all. One can believe in and trust Yahweh and still not believe everything written and changed and chosen and unchosen and ripped off from other people's religious myths in one of the current versions of the Christian bible.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:49 pm

I have a question - are certain sects of Christians the only groups that demand that all the myths in their holy books must be absolutely true and belief is mandatory? I don't know of any other religions that have groups like that but they may exist. Muslims perhaps? Is it only found in the Abrahamic religions?

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:14 pm

It may BE strictly an "Abrahamic religion" thing. Not certain, though.
avatar
DeavonReye

Posts : 769
Join date : 2009-06-15
Location : SW MO

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:15 pm

gillyflower wrote:And your proof for this is? Or is this one of the hypotheses that you have to explain the creation myths in the bible?

How could there be proof? and stop using the word myth as synonym for a false story

there are myths that are factual, myths that have an origin in history but have changed some of the facts, and myths that are completed invented to illustrate a truth
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:19 pm

I know certain Hindu's believe all their stories were literal; they are a minority but are the ones behind the Nationalistic violence in India. But, that could be a form of Stolkholm syndrome being in close proximity to Islam may have rubbed off.
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:21 pm

Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:And your proof for this is? Or is this one of the hypotheses that you have to explain the creation myths in the bible?

How could there be proof? and stop using the word myth as synonym for a false story

there are myths that are factual, myths that have an origin in history but have changed some of the facts, and myths that are completed invented to illustrate a truth
Would you rather we use 'fiction'....?
avatar
jumbojava

Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Across the river from St Louis

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:24 pm

why? do you believe your peoples creation myths to be fictional? than why should i believe mine to be?
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:29 pm

Do you believe your faith's fake past as a work of fiction?

Or litteral?
avatar
jumbojava

Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Across the river from St Louis

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:37 pm

Myths is not synonym for false story - except in the minds of some Christians because they use "myth" to mean "the false stories that people in other religions believe or hold dear." I have SO SO OFTEN repeated the definition of myth. Obviously it is time to do that again.

a. a story about superhuman beings of an earlier age taken by preliterate society to be a true account, usually of how natural phenomena, social customs, etc., came into existence (FreeDictionary)

1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b : parable, allegory (Merriam-Webster)

There are several creation myths in the bible, that is a fact.

So what is your point about Christian myths?

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:39 pm

Davelaw wrote:why? do you believe your peoples creation myths to be fictional? than why should i believe mine to be?

Yes, yes, I do believe that the creation myths in my religion are a parable.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:43 pm

gillyflower wrote:
Davelaw wrote:why? do you believe your peoples creation myths to be fictional? than why should i believe mine to be?

Yes, yes, I do believe that the creation myths in my religion are a parable.
As do I.

The issue is when myths become more important than the message.
avatar
jumbojava

Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Across the river from St Louis

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:54 pm

Hello, JJ! That is the most true thing (to me) I've read in a long time! That is exactly it!

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:55 pm

gillyflower wrote:Myths is not synonym for false story - except in the minds of some Christians because they use "myth" to mean "the false stories that people in other religions believe or hold dear." I have SO SO OFTEN repeated the definition of myth. Obviously it is time to do that again.

a. a story about superhuman beings of an earlier age taken by preliterate society to be a true account, usually of how natural phenomena, social customs, etc., came into existence (FreeDictionary)

1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b : parable, allegory (Merriam-Webster)

There are several creation myths in the bible, that is a fact.

So what is your point about Christian myths?

I use Campbell's definition of Myth and that you Gilly use the term myth to denigrate the content

and that a myth can also be a true account
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:57 pm

jumbojava wrote:
gillyflower wrote:
Davelaw wrote:why? do you believe your peoples creation myths to be fictional? than why should i believe mine to be?

Yes, yes, I do believe that the creation myths in my religion are a parable.
As do I.

The issue is when myths become more important than the message.

that is certainly what we fundies get accused of

prolly because we publicly defend the myths; but only discuss the meaning amongst ourselves
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:08 pm

I think then that is a mistake, dave, because it gives the impression that you want all the myths to be literal and true and exactly as reported rather than learn from the lessons in the myth.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:09 pm

Davelaw wrote:
jumbojava wrote:
gillyflower wrote:
Davelaw wrote:why? do you believe your peoples creation myths to be fictional? than why should i believe mine to be?

Yes, yes, I do believe that the creation myths in my religion are a parable.
As do I.

The issue is when myths become more important than the message.

that is certainly what we fundies get accused of

prolly because we publicly defend the myths; but only discuss the meaning amongst ourselves
And create more myths to defend and explain thier myths ; ie dinosaurs.

Once you make a religion out of a philosophy you've already long lost the message.
avatar
jumbojava

Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Across the river from St Louis

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:10 pm

gillyflower wrote:Hello, JJ! That is the most true thing (to me) I've read in a long time! That is exactly it!

Thanks!
avatar
jumbojava

Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Across the river from St Louis

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:10 pm

In New Thought we view the bible as allegorical, for the most part. Adam represents our spiritual beginning in ignorance and we end as Christs.

_________________
"I am often told that Divine Science is a difficult religion to live, and that other forms of religious belief afford an easier way. Perhaps this is true; for in Divine Science we never hold anyone else responsible for the things that come to us; we hold ourselves responsible for meeting the experiences of the day with power and of living our own lives divinely." – Nona Brooks
avatar
TigersEyeDowsing
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3854
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:12 pm

Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:Myths is not synonym for false story - except in the minds of some Christians because they use "myth" to mean "the false stories that people in other religions believe or hold dear." I have SO SO OFTEN repeated the definition of myth. Obviously it is time to do that again.

a. a story about superhuman beings of an earlier age taken by preliterate society to be a true account, usually of how natural phenomena, social customs, etc., came into existence (FreeDictionary)

1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b : parable, allegory (Merriam-Webster)

There are several creation myths in the bible, that is a fact.

So what is your point about Christian myths?

I use Campbell's definition of Myth and that you Gilly use the term myth to denigrate the content

and that a myth can also be a true account

I don't believe that I do denigrate content by using the term myth. I do remind you that your myths are myths, just like the myths of the Greek religion are myths. I think that you don't like your myths called myths. You would rather they be called "true stories."

I think you accuse me so that you don't have to accept that your myths are myths. That's okay.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:15 pm

The creating history from no history at all viewpoint is really pretty far out. Too much sci-fi.

There's one thing about God though, which is that She doesn't violate physical laws.

Bend them, yes. (Walk on water, raise the dead, why not?) But create total backlogged history from a future 'point' for no reason at all isn't something, IMO, the creator would do.

_________________
"I am often told that Divine Science is a difficult religion to live, and that other forms of religious belief afford an easier way. Perhaps this is true; for in Divine Science we never hold anyone else responsible for the things that come to us; we hold ourselves responsible for meeting the experiences of the day with power and of living our own lives divinely." – Nona Brooks
avatar
TigersEyeDowsing
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3854
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:18 pm

I just think that shows a lack of respect for her creations if she has to lie to them. And then tell them not to lie themselves ...

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:22 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:In New Thought we view the bible as allegorical, for the most part. Adam represents our spiritual beginning in ignorance and we end as Christs.

I can appreciate the mythos of the whole Christ story, even adopt bits of it into my own.

Belief in all the bible as litteral is not required for doing so conflicts with the message, imho.
avatar
jumbojava

Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Across the river from St Louis

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:26 pm

jumbojava wrote:
TigersEyeDowsing wrote:In New Thought we view the bible as allegorical, for the most part. Adam represents our spiritual beginning in ignorance and we end as Christs.

I can appreciate the mythos of the whole Christ story, even adopt bits of it into my own.

Belief in all the bible as litteral is not required for doing so conflicts with the message, imho.

its not required; but I disagree with it conflicting with the message

the literal belief is the public face; the meaning should be the gnosis for those willing to dig deeper
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:34 pm

That's a slippery slope. Some may "dig deeper" and find new faith. Others may "dig deeper" and discover new horrors and reasons to fall away further [as in my case].
avatar
DeavonReye

Posts : 769
Join date : 2009-06-15
Location : SW MO

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:37 pm

I dug deeper, Dave.

And the bible became to me a collection of myths and legends of deities, heros and villians.

But the message was still clear through that collision of myths and facts:

The Divine loves us all.

And that message to me is the only one that matters.


Last edited by jumbojava on Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
jumbojava

Posts : 145
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Across the river from St Louis

Back to top Go down

Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum