Where the Bible makes no sense at all

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:47 am

DeavonReye wrote:^ Or, he was "heaped upon", by humans, qualities that he never had, . . . . . but as a way to "scare people of other religions with stories that would frighten them into thinking twice about entering into a conflict with someone with such a powerful god".

Just sayin'....

Of course! My daddy (or god or penis) is bigger than yours is an old game. Smile

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:48 am

DeavonReye wrote:^ Or, he was "heaped upon", by humans, qualities that he never had, . . . . . but as a way to "scare people of other religions with stories that would frighten them into thinking twice about entering into a conflict with someone with such a powerful god".

Just sayin'....

if the Deity of the OT is the same as the little known Canaanite Deity Yah son of El brother of Baal; he was a warrior god first and developed his universal characteristics later
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:51 am

Yes, I took a course once that traced the development of Yahweh (for lack of a better term and this is what we called him in the course) from a tribal war god to what he later became.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:52 am

you can always use Bible god, Hebrew god or Christian god and my Jewish brothers and sisters use the Name (Ha Shem)
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:00 pm

Just as an aside, why does it freak you out to read your god's name? I have even run across Christians that are unaware that their god has a name and are quite surprised to learn it. Is it because it was forbidden to his followers, the Jews? Don't the Christians think that many of the rules that Ha Shem had for his Jewish followers, he doesn't require of his Christian followers? Why would this one apply when the others don't?

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:05 pm

As an addition, I do a lot of reading at the Jewish Virtual Library and they don't have a problem calling the god Yahweh. For example:

In Hebrew history, Abraham and his descendants are selected by Yahweh to be his chosen people over all other peoples.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebpat.html

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:07 pm

His name didn't become less Holy because He expanded His base: I'm not planning on getting eaten by bears any time soon

beside we were given the name of Jesus to invoke
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:07 pm

I don't understand the inhibition either....
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:08 pm

Davelaw wrote:His name didn't become less Holy because He expanded His base: I'm not planning on getting eaten by bears any time soon


Dave, . . . you lost me on this post.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:09 pm

gillyflower wrote:As an addition, I do a lot of reading at the Jewish Virtual Library and they don't have a problem calling the god Yahweh. For example:

In Hebrew history, Abraham and his descendants are selected by Yahweh to be his chosen people over all other peoples.

[url=http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebpat.html
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebpat.html[/quote[/url]]

i consider this to virtual speech; something more than writing

call it personal foible; but I kept silent about it for the longest
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:09 pm

[quote="Davelaw"]
gillyflower wrote:As an addition, I do a lot of reading at the Jewish Virtual Library and they don't have a problem calling the god Yahweh. For example:

In Hebrew history, Abraham and his descendants are selected by Yahweh to be his chosen people over all other peoples.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebpat.html[/quote]

i consider this to be virtual speech; something more than writing

call it a personal foible; but I kept silent about it for the longest
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:12 pm

DeavonReye wrote:
Davelaw wrote:His name didn't become less Holy because He expanded His base: I'm not planning on getting eaten by bears any time soon


Dave, . . . you lost me on this post.

Gilly is arguing because my God now has more followers ; His name is now less sacred?

culture specific rules were dropped when Christianity ceased to be Jewish
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:16 pm

That is a culturally specific rule that Jews no longer follow if their site is anything to go by. Or Yahweh is an acceptable name for them to use.

I said nothing (and you are a lawyer too) about "more followers" or that Yahweh's name is less sacred to any of his followers because the Jews use that one. They would be insulted by that. I will continue to use Yahweh since the Jews do and he was their god first.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:22 pm

then you have lost me from replying to any more of your posts and I thought we generating decent fodder for thought
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:30 pm

Very well, don't respond any more. I was quite willing to play your game, allowing you to dictate words that can't be used until you ascribed words to me that weren't there and insulted the Jews to boot. You think it is an insult to call a god by his accepted name but you don't see much wrong with insulting live people.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:30 pm

Again, . . . . why is this an issue, . . . not spelling out your god's name? I don't understand the problem.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:35 pm

The most important and most often written name of God in Judaism is the Tetragrammaton, the four-letter name of God, AKA יהוה, or YHWH. "Tetragrammaton" derives from the prefix tetra- ("four") and gramma ("letter", "grapheme"). The Tetragrammaton appears 6,828 times (see 'Counts' in the Yahweh article) in the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia edition of the Hebrew Masoretic text. This name is first mentioned in the Book of Genesis (2.4) and in English language bibles is traditionally translated as "The LORD".

It isn't a problem to a lot of people since Yahweh isn't the name of the god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:18 pm

It depends upon which branch of Judaism as to how hardcore they are about this, and oftentimes it depends upon the individual Jew. Online or on a computer is not considered actual writing because it's not permanent as is putting words onto paper. Therefore, any of the names of God could be written out in a holy or respectful context on a computer--explaining a Torah portion, for instance--but might or might not be according to the scruples of the person doing the writing. Many Jews will only use Hashem (even though that's a form usually reserved for speech) or G-d just in case someone might print what was said, being unaware that an online communication should not be printed out if it contains any of the sacred names.

Seems silly to me, but that's the way they say it ought to be done.

As for this,
The most important and most often written name of God in Judaism is the Tetragrammaton, the four-letter name of God, AKA יהוה, or YHWH. "Tetragrammaton" derives from the prefix tetra- ("four") and gramma ("letter", "grapheme"). The Tetragrammaton appears 6,828 times (see 'Counts' in the Yahweh article) in the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia edition of the Hebrew Masoretic text. This name is first mentioned in the Book of Genesis (2.4) and in English language bibles is traditionally translated as "The LORD".

[Gilly remarks:] It isn't a problem to a lot of people since Yahweh isn't the name of the god.


As far as I know, that is THE one that definitely would not be written out online by most Jews. Technically, Yahweh isn't the actual name, but they won't use anything that resembles the YHVH in any way. It's not supposed to be pronounced at all much less written. Hubby's relatives won't use the letters in combination in ordinary communication whether in Hebrew or English. It's not even used in prayer during services. Adonai is used instead.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:41 pm

You know that there are people who think that Adonai came from the Greek god Adonis?

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:43 pm

Is there somewhere in religious text that tells people to not do any of this? It seems to be rather odd.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:50 pm

DeavonReye wrote:
jumbojava wrote:Dont forget your towel.....

YOU'RE a towel!

Wanna get high?



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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:51 pm

DeavonReye wrote:Is there somewhere in religious text that tells people to not do any of this? It seems to be rather odd.

No, it is just Jewish custom, one adopted rather late.

Ed. to add: It is in Deuteronomy that the name of the god shouldn't be defaced. I have a feeling that it comes from how conquerors went into towns, took over the religious site for their own and carted off or destroyed the religious symbols, but I can't back that up.


Last edited by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:55 pm

Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:I think that Yahweh was a kick ass warrior god that one had best respect, in this era.

Let me say it one last time; it really bothers me when you use a derivation of the specific name Holy Name of my Diety (one we are forbidden to speak outloud); could you please refrain?

For me it is a clarification thing. Which god are we talking about? If you have an alternative, I would be happy to hear it, but "God" is not a good option, and "Christian God" doesn't take into account the other Abrahamic faiths, and I have flat out been told that Judeo-Christian is an offensive term to a large number of Jews, Christians and Muslims. So, what would you suggest? After all, it is his name.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:01 pm

I don't get it. . . . . . If it isn't specifically spelled out, . . . then why in the freakin world do people make a fuss over it? It makes no sense at all.

And as sacrificialgoddess said (in the other thread), it sure helps when tyring to specify which god you're talking about.

Oh, and sg, . . . I've never gotten high before, but if you really want to, I guess I'm game.


Last edited by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:01 pm

Ooops....
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

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