Where the Bible makes no sense at all

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:32 am

Oh, my, what I see here is a story told by grown ups around the campfire to the children of the tribe. Probably the story teller is an old man. This is so clearly part of an oral history to me. It teaches the children to respect their elders and fear their god, plus there are consequences for their actions and sometimes those far outweigh the seriousness of the action itself. It also hints to the children and the other adults that their god will do their bidding, if they are in good with him.

Can't you just see the storytellers face and the faces of the children as he says "and two she-bears came out of the woods and tore 42 of the boys!" It would be the same for a good Pecos Bill story with a good punchline.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by john5180 on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:16 am

Don't want to side track this thread any more than it has been already, but has anyone noticed that the number 42 comes up a lot when dealing with something bad in the bible? I hadn't until I stumbled upon this site... http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com. Regarding Elisha:2Kings 2:24
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came
forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. In 2Kings 10:14
And he said, Take them alive. And they took them alive, and slew them at the pit of the shearing
house, even two and forty men; neither left he any of them. In Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And finally, Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

It has nothing to do with the prophesy, or Jesus being an unrepentant runaway, but I thought it was interesting.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:22 am

Is it a sacred number in Judaism? Or is it just further evidence that the answer to the question of Life, the Universe and Everything is 42?

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by jumbojava on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:34 am

Dont forget your towel.....
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:36 am

As a side not to "the bear attack", . . . when I have made this an issue [death due to "being made fun of"], the argument turns from it being youths/kids/children . . . into a pack of young armed MEN, who are actually wanting to kill the prophet.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:37 am

jumbojava wrote:Dont forget your towel.....

YOU'RE a towel!
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:37 am

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/42.html

When people start getting into 'factors' of numbers, etc., I think they're going a little too far.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:41 am

Don't Panic

a little late but still good advice

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:44 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/42.html

When people start getting into 'factors' of numbers, etc., I think they're going a little too far.

Oh, . . SOOOOO agreed, TED.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:57 am

The problem to me is that people take the myths in the bible too seriously and out of context. I know that dave thinks I'm denigrating the bible myths when I call them myths because it places them on the same level as the Greek myths or the Jack Tales of the Appalachians. I think they are. Some of these things are written the way they are because they were told that way - they are meant to be heard, not read, and for anyone who has listened to folk tales or audiobooks for that matter, you know oral stories are different than written ones. In a written story you can go on and on with descriptions and the person can just skip a page or two. With an oral story you would lose your audience.

Besides all that, oral stories would be just a little different from teller to teller. What finally got written down was either how one person recollected the story or a variation of the myth that could be agreed upon, either as a compromise or politically motivated.

Which is to say that pouring over them, dissecting them word by word, thinking what does this mean, do you do that to a Jack Tale or a Greek myth? No, you enjoy the myth, learn the lesson and move on. The number 42 might just have been one of those numbers that isn't magical, it is just the fall back number for "a lot of things" in that culture.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:05 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/42.html

When people start getting into 'factors' of numbers, etc., I think they're going a little too far.

Weeeelll, I don't know about that. There actually might be something to John's point about 42.

Use of gematria--numbers in certain combinations having mystical meanings? To this day the Kabbalists (the Jewish ones, not Madonna) use gematria. Kabbalah is a serious branch of Judaism since it's deeply mystical, and only married, middle-aged men can get into it although boys study some of the basics in Hebrew school.

Then again, SG may be onto something as much of a wag as Douglas Adams was. It wouldn't be all that farfetched to think that this rather obscure reference was behind The Answer.
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:07 am

Douglas Adams said that he picked 42 because he thought it was a funny number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy

shoot, it isn't showing up right because of the ' I think. You'll have to copy and paste.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:09 am

Oh, well. So much for my attributing deeeep meaning to something from Adams, eh? Rolling Eyes
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:10 am

That's the problem with attributing deeeep meaning to things in the bible, too, Dot.

And by the way, if anyone has some spare cash this last day of the year, you might consider making a small donation to Wikipedia. It is invaluable to ordinary people who just want to know a little something about er, something. Smile

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:19 am

DeavonReye wrote:As a side not to "the bear attack", . . . when I have made this an issue [death due to "being made fun of"], the argument turns from it being youths/kids/children . . . into a pack of young armed MEN, who are actually wanting to kill the prophet.

well there is some question as to the use of the Hebrew word-it can mean anything from young boy to unmarried servant

but no they were NOT trying to kill him; just mock him
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:21 am

gillyflower wrote:That's the problem with attributing deeeep meaning to things in the bible, too, Dot.

And by the way, if anyone has some spare cash this last day of the year, you might consider making a small donation to Wikipedia. It is invaluable to ordinary people who just want to know a little something about er, something. Smile
OT

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:23 am

Dave, if the names were changed, if Ares was called upon and killed 42 boys for mocking an elder, what would you think of Ares the god?

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:24 am

Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:That's the problem with attributing deeeep meaning to things in the bible, too, Dot.

And by the way, if anyone has some spare cash this last day of the year, you might consider making a small donation to Wikipedia. It is invaluable to ordinary people who just want to know a little something about er, something. Smile
OT

my nephew says that Wiki makes $8 mill at the end of every year through donations: and this is how they pay their employee bonuses

I'm happy for them. I appreciate the lack of advertising on their site.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:32 am

john5180 wrote:Don't want to side track this thread any more than it has been already, but has anyone noticed that the number 42 comes up a lot when dealing with something bad in the bible? I hadn't until I stumbled upon this site... http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com. Regarding Elisha:2Kings 2:24
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came
forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. In 2Kings 10:14
And he said, Take them alive. And they took them alive, and slew them at the pit of the shearing
house, even two and forty men; neither left he any of them. In Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And finally, Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

It has nothing to do with the prophesy, or Jesus being an unrepentant runaway, but I thought it was interesting.

the passages in Revelation have a different meaning

but for the OT passages 40 means a long time or a whole bunch; 42 means its a great big bunch

40 days and 40 nights; 40 years in the wilderness; a related language and culture gave us 40 thieves

the 42 months in Rev is half of a sacred seven in years

and yes, 6 and 7 and all there mutiples are sacred numbers in scripture including 6 by 7; but IMO thats not whats going on here-your mileage may vary
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:34 am

gillyflower wrote:
Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:That's the problem with attributing deeeep meaning to things in the bible, too, Dot.

And by the way, if anyone has some spare cash this last day of the year, you might consider making a small donation to Wikipedia. It is invaluable to ordinary people who just want to know a little something about er, something. Smile
OT

my nephew says that Wiki makes $8 mill at the end of every year through donations: and this is how they pay their employee bonuses

I'm happy for them. I appreciate the lack of advertising on their site.

OT

as long as Godwin gets his bonus I'm good
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:35 am

gillyflower wrote:Dave, if the names were changed, if Ares was called upon and killed 42 boys for mocking an elder, what would you think of Ares the god?

kick ass warrior god; better respect him
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:39 am

I think that Yahweh was a kick ass warrior god that one had best respect, in this era.

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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:43 am

gillyflower wrote:I think that Yahweh was a kick ass warrior god that one had best respect, in this era.

Let me say it one last time; it really bothers me when you use a derivation of the specific name Holy Name of my Diety (one we are forbidden to speak outloud); could you please refrain?


Last edited by Davelaw on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:43 am

^ Or, he was "heaped upon", by humans, qualities that he never had, . . . . . but as a way to "scare people of other religions with stories that would frighten them into thinking twice about entering into a conflict with someone with such a powerful god".

Just sayin'....
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Re: Where the Bible makes no sense at all

Post by gillyflower on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:45 am

Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:I think that Yahweh was a kick ass warrior god that one had best respect, in this era.

Let me say it one last time; it really bothers me when you use a derivation of the specific name Holy Name of my Diety (one we are forbidden to speak outloud); could you please refrain?

Certainly, if you will give me a name to use for him. I use "god" to speak of my gods as you do of yours.

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