What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:27 pm

Well, that and when Jesus confirms that Elijah was a reincarnation of the Prophet.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by jumbojava on Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:09 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:In New Thought, the Christ is the way around karma. Everyone is subject to karmic debt but the Christ is a way to bypass karmic debt. That's our concept of salvation. It's a little involved.
Sorta like a cheat code....?
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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:37 pm

jumbojava wrote:
TigersEyeDowsing wrote:In New Thought, the Christ is the way around karma. Everyone is subject to karmic debt but the Christ is a way to bypass karmic debt. That's our concept of salvation. It's a little involved.
Sorta like a cheat code....?

Sorta! Very Happy By default we're all subject to karmic repayment of everything but through the expression of our fuller being (God as man) we can negate that and create our own reality.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by Davelaw on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:35 pm

john5180 wrote:
TigersEyeDowsing wrote:'Remember it's no fun, to be the chosen one.'

Are you saying that people who have had bad experiences in their lives got the short straw? I'm afraid I don't get the point here.

I thought they were saying-that a previous incarnation had a choice in their future experiences and chose the harder path; so they could progress faster- that thought is nascent in some versionso Ch'an; but never (in my humble opinoin) fully expressed.
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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by Davelaw on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:38 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:
DeavonReye wrote:Isn't there some sort of "karmic bandade/cure" for someone who has experienced bad experience after bad experience, AND manages to keep him/herself from self destruction? Surely someone wouldn't be given bad luck for all their life.

Good points, Deavon.

It's important to remember, though, that everyone's life has at least SOME happy moments. I'm not talking about some kind of predestined lifetime full of horrible experiences one after the other.

An important understanding of belief in rebirth is that the soul's past lives have undoubtedly included ones where the person lived well and accomplished much that reappears later in a "bad luck" lifetime as talents and gifts that help to ease the burdens of a life that appears to be very difficult to other people.

And the person isn't "given bad luck." Remember that as long as we live we're making choices every moment about how we're going to regard what's happening to us and what we'll try to do about it. Any single choice might be the start of a whole different direction for a life.

Let's say as a for-instance one soul has been working very hard at spiritual lessons over the course of several lifetimes and chooses in this one to be born to a solidly middle-class couple who want children very much and provide a good upbringing. This situation might make for a relatively uneventful lifetime, particularly if the person grows up to live reasonably happily much as the parents did.

On the other hand, a soul wanting accelerated spiritual learning might choose to be born into an extremely wealthy family and become a trust-fund "baby" who never needs to hold a job. You might say, "Well, what's so unfortunate about THAT situation?" However, from the point of view of the soul, this might be a very challenging situation with all sorts of spiritual temptations that the person must resist, needing to live modestly while giving large bequests to charitable causes perhaps in order to progress spiritually. Rather difficult to accomplish in those circumstances for most people, wouldn't you agree?
Brings to mind the story of the historical Saint Nicholas
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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by Davelaw on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:40 pm

jumbojava wrote:
TigersEyeDowsing wrote:In New Thought, the Christ is the way around karma. Everyone is subject to karmic debt but the Christ is a way to bypass karmic debt. That's our concept of salvation. It's a little involved.
Sorta like a cheat code....?

I think JJ was trying to bring me back into the conversation. Remember, gamers and their disdain for cheat codes.
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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:54 pm

In my tradition we do not believe in any kind of karmic debt. We believe that the consequences of actions in this life are not visited upon the the person in the next. Misfortune just happens, in each and every life, not because we "choose" to let it happen so that we grow faster, but because misfortune is a part of life. Random things happen, both good and bad, something that makes most people's lives very interesting. The goal in this life is to lead as good a life as one can, enjoy as much of it as one can, and live through the random and deserved misfortunes with as much courage as possible.

Does no one here have a problem with a god blinding a person just so the god can give the person back his sight in a showy manner so that other people are impressed?

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by john5180 on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:12 am

Davelaw wrote:
DotNotInOz wrote:
DeavonReye wrote:Isn't there some sort of "karmic bandade/cure" for someone who has experienced bad experience after bad experience, AND manages to keep him/herself from self destruction? Surely someone wouldn't be given bad luck for all their life.

Good points, Deavon.

It's important to remember, though, that everyone's life has at least SOME happy moments. I'm not talking about some kind of predestined lifetime full of horrible experiences one after the other.

An important understanding of belief in rebirth is that the soul's past lives have undoubtedly included ones where the person lived well and accomplished much that reappears later in a "bad luck" lifetime as talents and gifts that help to ease the burdens of a life that appears to be very difficult to other people.

And the person isn't "given bad luck." Remember that as long as we live we're making choices every moment about how we're going to regard what's happening to us and what we'll try to do about it. Any single choice might be the start of a whole different direction for a life.

Let's say as a for-instance one soul has been working very hard at spiritual lessons over the course of several lifetimes and chooses in this one to be born to a solidly middle-class couple who want children very much and provide a good upbringing. This situation might make for a relatively uneventful lifetime, particularly if the person grows up to live reasonably happily much as the parents did.

On the other hand, a soul wanting accelerated spiritual learning might choose to be born into an extremely wealthy family and become a trust-fund "baby" who never needs to hold a job. You might say, "Well, what's so unfortunate about THAT situation?" However, from the point of view of the soul, this might be a very challenging situation with all sorts of spiritual temptations that the person must resist, needing to live modestly while giving large bequests to charitable causes perhaps in order to progress spiritually. Rather difficult to accomplish in those circumstances for most people, wouldn't you agree?
Brings to mind the story of the historical Saint Nicholas

I can't see how Santa fits into this, but then again....... And karmic band aid? Do you really think it works that way?

I don't know if the soul picks his circumstances for another incarnation or not. I just understand that sometimes shit just happens. And to use the idea of being born into a wealthy life as a challenge? Perhaps, for I know of more wealthy people so bored and dissatisfied with life that they abuse drugs or alcohol to make up for the emptiness. There might be a point there, Dot, but if this is in fact true, there are many souls failing the challenge.

I don't believe circumstances surrounding our birth, the quality of or lack of quality in our family relationships has a damn thing to do with how our lives play out. I've known a hellava lot of people who lived in the direst of circumstances, and fed a few at my own table to know that with determination and grit these circumstances can be overcome. The point is, they shouldered the burden, and decided to own it, rather than allow the circumstances to own them, and took control of their lives. As for Karmic justice.... I don't believe for one moment that Karma is out to get you. That's a Christian concept at it's very core. Karma is just a fancy word for reaping what you sew; or getting paid back to you for what you give. If you go in with the attitude of not letting life's pit falls hold you back, and strive to overcome anything tossed into your path, then the reward is learning a spiritual lesson, and advancing to where you want your life to be. If someone simply sits on a pity pot, and complains about the hand dealt, then nothing will change for the better. They will continue to be disappointed, will do nothing positive for themselves, and will in effect receive all they have asked for in this life. Either way, Karmic justice has played itself out. This scenario will continue incarnation after incarnation until the supposed victim takes on the responsibility of how his life is supposed to unfold. It ain't mommy and daddy's fault, it ain't the government, it isn't the economic situation, nor is it mental or physical deformities that makes a person loving, kind to others and compassionate for all people of any stripe; the same is true in regards to anger, fear and jealousy. One can complain and try to make excuses from now until the cows come home. But unless one has actually done something to change his or her circumstances in life without trying to blame someone or anything else for it, no change is bound to come.
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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:53 am

gillyflower wrote:In my tradition we do not believe in any kind of karmic debt. We believe that the consequences of actions in this life are not visited upon the the person in the next. Misfortune just happens, in each and every life, not because we "choose" to let it happen so that we grow faster, but because misfortune is a part of life. Random things happen, both good and bad, something that makes most people's lives very interesting. The goal in this life is to lead as good a life as one can, enjoy as much of it as one can, and live through the random and deserved misfortunes with as much courage as possible.

Does no one here have a problem with a god blinding a person just so the god can give the person back his sight in a showy manner so that other people are impressed?

I think its neat that people view the universe in such different ways with varying degrees of order and chaos. I reckon it has to do with our own personalities and what we appreciate (or don't). There's no proving it either way.

I don't have a problem with a man being born blind because I believe all those conditions are chosen by a person before their incarnation.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:52 am

It is interesting, and you are right, there is no proof of life or lives after death, although some people have UPGs that give them enough proof for themselves.

I appreciate this world, and I think that is the crux of the matter. It is enough for me. The beauty, the experiences I've had, the love, the heartache, the great failures and successes - oh my! It probably is a mix of personality and age, but I feel that my life has been a very full one and, whether this is all there is or not, I am very, very devoutly grateful for it and really have no need of more. If I am given more, well and good, but thinking there is another life or world waiting isn't necessary to enhance my enjoyment of this world and life, which is where I'd rather put my focus.

I think the attitude towards the blind man is a continuation of America's infatuation with the Blame Game. The blindness has to be "someone's" fault, be it a god or yourself. It can't be random, an accident, but instead of turning that blame on the god, one turns it on oneself. I don't see the benefit of believing that you somehow deserve - or have asked for - all that bad things that happen to you. I suspect that it has a lot to do with control issues and how comfortable a person feels about chaos.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:50 am

You know, we should do a poll, a personality test as it were:

1. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that everything that happens in your life is preplanned by a deity/committee of deities?

2. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that everything happens like it does to you because you have chosen to have it happen like that?

3. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that prior to your life you were permitted to choose some options for it? (Control split between you and deity(s) of choice.)

4. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that life is a great big crap shoot and the game isn't rigged? Anything is possible!

5. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that there are patterns to the universe that you may not understand (some order) and some chaos deliberately built into it and you and the gods navigate it as best as possible? (This is not #3 because here you don't think any being is in charge, or if a being is in charge of the overall program, it is so far from being within your understanding and it's motives and possible goals so far removed that there might as well be no one in charge. I suspect that this is where I fall.)

6. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that life is a test set up by deity or deities unknown and your job is to keep doing the test until you win the right to become the test giver?

Other suggestions welcome!

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:04 am

I don't necessarily think it's about blame, Gilly- To me it's about how much order is present in the Universe. We've got people like yourself who find a lot of chaos, and the polar opposite like myself who look for total order, and people somewheres in the middle like John who (from what I understand) believe in mostly order with a little chaos.

When I was younger and having to deal with the things I had to deal with and was in the Baptist church I had come to believe God was a sadist who just enjoyed sending out the bad shit; then as I got older I figured God or whatever was nonexistant and it was just bad luck or shit just happened or whatever. The reason I never ended it other than being scared of death was because there were a couple of people who would have been devastated and felt tormented by it.

Once I started looking into spiritual studies of laws of cause and effect, karma, reincarnation, choosing our experiences, law of attraction, etc., I got a much fuller understanding of why the things are as they are. Of course, it's UPG, but I went from a place of "shit happens" to a grounded understanding of why shit happens and and how, which gives me a real sense of control of my situations as well as restoring my sense of divine order and perfect justice.

In the words of Malinda Cramer, I view life as a classroom, and Law as the schoolmaster. We all know, for example, that my mother and myself are the two most impossible people to get along with in history. Polar opposites. The knowledge/belief/understanding that I chose to be born into my mother's family where we can't get along or find understanding while some people are born to mothers that they get along with and have joy lets me believe there are lessons we are trying to work out with each other that we planned on the other side. When things get bad I can step back, look at the situation and say "I chose this", which puts me back in control of the situation and more importantly have the understanding that I would never choose to undertake something that would break me, that I couldn't handle. When we choose our tribulations before we come in, we do it with the knowledge that we can handle what lessons we take on to learn.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:22 am

gillyflower wrote:You know, we should do a poll, a personality test as it were:

I probably answered most of these in the post before, as we were writing at the same time. But this could be fun Very Happy

1. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that everything that happens in your life is preplanned by a deity/committee of deities?

As a pantheist I feel we co-create with Deity. It's hard to separate our choices and the divine's.

2. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that everything happens like it does to you because you have chosen to have it happen like that?

Pretty much. I believe in the Law of Attraction; everything that exists in the visible has its root in the invisible. Most of the things that happen in our lives are a result of consciousness, whether ours or someone else's. Most people, of course, don't realize that so continue to think bad thoughts and create a crapshoot of a reality.

3. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that prior to your life you were permitted to choose some options for it? (Control split between you and deity(s) of choice.)

Going back to the Divine Science thing, we come from Divine Mind and return back to it so it's hard to distinguish individuality.

4. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that life is a great big crap shoot and the game isn't rigged? Anything is possible!

Absolutely not. Though to most people, and myself at one point, it feels that way.
Life being a crap shoot is to me a very scary proposition. Sure, some people win (great!) but what about the losers? When I was on the crap shoot I was in the losing field and that's not fun.

5. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that there are patterns to the universe that you may not understand (some order) and some chaos deliberately built into it and you and the gods navigate it as best as possible? (This is not #3 because here you don't think any being is in charge, or if a being is in charge of the overall program, it is so far from being within your understanding and it's motives and possible goals so far removed that there might as well be no one in charge. I suspect that this is where I fall.)

6. Do you feel most comfortable thinking that life is a test set up by deity or deities unknown and your job is to keep doing the test until you win the right to become the test giver?

As I mentioned in post prior, I believe life is the classroom. It's not exactly a "test" because there's no real pass or fail, or one big mountain to triumph; but we were here for the learning and growing.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:24 am

That is one way to look at it. I, on the other hand, would think that you got the parents you got because of the luck of the draw (or some unseen and unknowable force). Your job is examine what behaviors and family patterns you learned from them and decide which ones you need to let it stop with you and not pass on to the next generation and which patterns are important to continue. It's all about learning to sift the chaff from the grain. Your gods are there to help guide you through the process. There will be failures, there will be successes. It is important to learn from all of it. To me, the most important thing is to enjoy your life and this world and live honorably. If you have done that, you have succeeded.

I believe that not everyone can handle all the things that life throws at them. I've seen that happen. It is a good survival tactic to know when you have had too much and what to do so that you can survive it to fight the good fight another day.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:41 am

TED said, "As I mentioned in post prior, I believe life is the classroom. It's not exactly a "test" because there's no real pass or fail, or one big mountain to triumph; but we were here for the learning and growing."

What do you believe happens when you reach the top of the mountain, TED?

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:52 am

Interesting viewpoints, Gilly, though I quit believing in the luck of the draw years ago. If that belief works for you, of course, go for it, but since I had a pretty rough life overall it led me to a place of desperation (why me??). You've mentioned your evolutionary views before regarding inheritence which makes sense from your mother point of view; but then I have to ask since you say it's our "job" to create and pass on family behaviors what of us that are gay, lesbian, infertile, single, or just hate kids and don't want any? I've heard the same from the folks that say to women "Your job is to have children and tend the house like God commands." My coworkers sisters is one of those. She asks about the same exceptions.

Otherwise I think we both agree that learning is important.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:57 am

gillyflower wrote:TED said, "As I mentioned in post prior, I believe life is the classroom. It's not exactly a "test" because there's no real pass or fail, or one big mountain to triumph; but we were here for the learning and growing."

What do you believe happens when you reach the top of the mountain, TED?

Reread it. I said I don't think that there's a real pass or fail or one big mountain to triumph. Maybe for some people there is... like Helen Keller. She's one of those people that had a BIG mountain and grew to have peace and joy in her life even without sight and hearing. What a gal.

If there is a mountain for everyone, in my opinion, it is atonement with the divine. Or enlightenment, if that word's easier to digest.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:57 am

LOL Biology is only part of it! Isn't there a saying about it takes a community to raise a child? A commitment to make the world a better place, means a commitment to following generations of people, to help "raise" them whether or not they are your biological children or not, and improve their lives.

The "folks" you hear say that a woman's place is barefoot and pregnant, or that your job is to tend house, etc, really aren't interested in the next generation, are they? They are interested in controlling other people and in their own creature comforts. (I'm cleaning my house right now and I don't enjoy it. I wonder if I could create a religion where a man has to do all the chores I don't like and provide sex to me whenever I want it. Hmmm.....)

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:01 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:
gillyflower wrote:TED said, "As I mentioned in post prior, I believe life is the classroom. It's not exactly a "test" because there's no real pass or fail, or one big mountain to triumph; but we were here for the learning and growing."

What do you believe happens when you reach the top of the mountain, TED?

Reread it. I said I don't think that there's a real pass or fail or one big mountain to triumph. Maybe for some people there is... like Helen Keller. She's one of those people that had a BIG mountain and grew to have peace and joy in her life even without sight and hearing. What a gal.

If there is a mountain for everyone, in my opinion, it is atonement with the divine. Or enlightenment, if that word's easier to digest.

I'll rephrase. Smile

What's the goal? What happens after enlightenment?

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:49 am

gillyflower wrote:LOL Biology is only part of it! Isn't there a saying about it takes a community to raise a child? A commitment to make the world a better place, means a commitment to following generations of people, to help "raise" them whether or not they are your biological children or not, and improve their lives.

The "folks" you hear say that a woman's place is barefoot and pregnant, or that your job is to tend house, etc, really aren't interested in the next generation, are they? They are interested in controlling other people and in their own creature comforts. (I'm cleaning my house right now and I don't enjoy it. I wonder if I could create a religion where a man has to do all the chores I don't like and provide sex to me whenever I want it. Hmmm.....)

Ah, I gotcha. You're saying our job is to make the world a better place, pass on the better ideas etc., to the next generation to improve the world. That makes more sense. Smile And no, I think these people are out to justify their own lack of lifestyle.

I'll rephrase.

What's the goal? What happens after enlightenment?

I can't answer from personal experience but from those I've heard it would best be described as eternal mental satisfaction; always maintaining perfect peace, contentment, patience and understanding. In my UPG, I've experiened perfect peace, perfect patience and understanding and enlightenment in small bursts which don't last. I think the effect of enlightenment/atonement is permanent unity with Divine Mind and along with it a peace that passes understanding. Small burts of it, tastes and teases are enough to drive me toward a deeper search.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:58 pm

It is the funniest thing to me, that which we each aspire to obtain, and it says more about the person than anything. I want eternal adventure, punctuated by laughing and playing, feasting and fun, oohing and ahhing and relaxation as my afterlife, if I get a choice. My universe is a boisterous one and I like it that way.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:19 pm

I think our desires of the afterlife - or lack thereof - do show what we want most. I want to be dissolved into unity with God, peace, and contentment.

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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:39 pm

gillyflower wrote:Does no one here have a problem with a god blinding a person just so the god can give the person back his sight in a showy manner so that other people are impressed?

Huh? Where does any portion of this text (John 9:1-12) say that God caused the man to have been born blind?

The point that Jesus makes, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him. We must work the works of him who sent me,...[RSV, John 9:3-4], is not that God blinded the man so that Jesus could give the man sight but rather that "We must work the works of him who sent me." This point, I suspect, is part of a manuscript different from those of the rest of the story about the blind man given sight. (Wish I had a book that breaks down the Bible into what comes from which manuscript. It would be interesting to see if the story is all from a single manuscript. So much of the Bible is not that I have my doubts.)

That "We must work the works of him who sent me" is the point. We take what we have in life and use that to develop spiritually if we make progress. If we do not work with our circumstances but instead bemoan them, we are not progressing.

I think the portion I've quoted is quite consistent with the beliefs I mentioned previously. The blind man chose that condition in order to better "work the works of him who sent me."

Now, if you choose to believe that Jesus gave him sight, then he would work out his spiritual lesson henceforth by other means than attempting to work around being blind.

Was being a beggar the only thing open to a blind man in that time and place? I wonder, or is that possibly an illustration that the story is actually about someone wallowing in his blindness and refusing to work to make the most of his life despite being blind? Is this story really about being spiritually "blind" and then having one's eyes "opened" by some extraordinary experience that then shows a person the way to manifesting spirit in life?

I don't suppose we'll ever know.
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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:19 pm

john5180 wrote:
Davelaw wrote:
Brings to mind the story of the historical Saint Nicholas

I can't see how Santa fits into this, but then again....... And karmic band aid? Do you really think it works that way?

Check the story of the model for Santa, John, the Catholic St. Nicholas. It's a pretty good one of the situation I posed although I was thinking more of the person who doesn't give away the entire fortune as St. Nicholas did.

I don't know if the soul picks his circumstances for another incarnation or not. I just understand that sometimes shit just happens.

I believe it's both. Remember I said that we choose the circumstances we're born into as ones that fit our spiritual lesson. That doesn't mean that a person's life choices will keep them in similar circumstances lifelong despite my first simplistic example. The rest depends upon our choices in life and how we react to what life throws at us.

And to use the idea of being born into a wealthy life as a challenge? Perhaps, for I know of more wealthy people so bored and dissatisfied with life that they abuse drugs or alcohol to make up for the emptiness. There might be a point there, Dot, but if this is in fact true, there are many souls failing the challenge.

Exactly, John. More people than not in that situation are probably failing to grow very much spiritually. Then again, they might be learning just what they are trying to accomplish. We can't know the reasons why they chose that wealthy situation to be born into. Their spiritual lesson may have nothing to do with how they manage being born rich. The person may have been born to those parents for different learning having nothing to do with wealth or its absence. It's important to note that I said this example was a definite over-simplification.

I don't believe circumstances surrounding our birth, the quality of or lack of quality in our family relationships has a damn thing to do with how our lives play out. I've known a hellava lot of people who lived in the direst of circumstances, and fed a few at my own table to know that with determination and grit these circumstances can be overcome. The point is, they shouldered the burden, and decided to own it, rather than allow the circumstances to own them, and took control of their lives.

You've just made my point, John. The circumstances into which we're born are simply a starting line. After birth, it's what we do with the situations life throws at us that counts.

As for Karmic justice.... I don't believe for one moment that Karma is out to get you. That's a Christian concept at it's very core. Karma is just a fancy word for reaping what you sew; or getting paid back to you for what you give. If you go in with the attitude of not letting life's pit falls hold you back, and strive to overcome anything tossed into your path, then the reward is learning a spiritual lesson, and advancing to where you want your life to be. If someone simply sits on a pity pot, and complains about the hand dealt, then nothing will change for the better. They will continue to be disappointed, will do nothing positive for themselves, and will in effect receive all they have asked for in this life. Either way, Karmic justice has played itself out. This scenario will continue incarnation after incarnation until the supposed victim takes on the responsibility of how his life is supposed to unfold. It ain't mommy and daddy's fault, it ain't the government, it isn't the economic situation, nor is it mental or physical deformities that makes a person loving, kind to others and compassionate for all people of any stripe; the same is true in regards to anger, fear and jealousy. One can complain and try to make excuses from now until the cows come home. But unless one has actually done something to change his or her circumstances in life without trying to blame someone or anything else for it, no change is bound to come.

I agree, John. Karma is not punishment for past life sins as some people maintain. Many people have a mistaken impression that this is so especially when believers in reincarnation cite something like the man being born blind as the result of "karma."

In a sense, I agree with your view that karma is "getting paid back to you for what you give." However, I feel that it's more a matter of your life having certain limitations so that your options will be restricted, thereby encouraging you to develop spiritually in certain ways. Or you have certain talents resulting from skills developed in past lives and positive efforts made so that you have various options for developing. A child prodigy is a good example of something like this, IMO.

It's often been maintained, and it makes some sense to me, that many of the Nazi officials have returned to lives as children born with birth defects severely restricting their mobility or ability to communicate. I can see that as a possibility. If the soul can work with these reduced circumstances and bring joy to others nonetheless, then progress is being made toward balancing out a life of evil.

I'm reminded of a little boy whom I babysat a few times when a teenager. He was the firstborn of first cousins and could neither walk nor talk. He was about four-years-old then but due to multiple birth defects was only about the size of a normal two-year-old with somewhat stunted arms and legs.

Mark was very easy to care for. He smiled with delight at being talked to and cuddled. He seemed to enjoy his food immensely even though all he could eat was a specially formulated liquid diet. When his normal younger brother would try to play with him, Mark's eyes would light up, and his smile become brilliant. He gave love far more than one would have thought possible for one so limited.
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Re: What Exacty did Jesus Fix?

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:25 pm

gillyflower wrote:It is the funniest thing to me, that which we each aspire to obtain, and it says more about the person than anything. I want eternal adventure, punctuated by laughing and playing, feasting and fun, oohing and ahhing and relaxation as my afterlife, if I get a choice. My universe is a boisterous one and I like it that way.

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:I think our desires of the afterlife - or lack thereof - do show what we want most. I want to be dissolved into unity with God, peace, and contentment.

It is my belief that the afterlife or "rest and review between lives" as I prefer to label it will be sometimes as Gilly wishes and ultimately as TED describes.

After evolving through many forms of existence, we are absorbed into the Creative Energy that kicked off this whole playground to start with.
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