Why I am glad I am not a Christian

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Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:25 pm

I know this is likely harsh, but I have had a little too much this person or that person is not really a Christian in my life of late. So. Here it is. I am glad I am not a Christian. That way I don't have to deal with this crap.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091203/ap_on_re/us_rel_conservative_bible

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:42 pm

Actually, I find all the speculation over which biblical passages are probably authentic and which were later propagandistic insertions rather interesting in an academic context. But hey, I'm a lifelong "lit geek," so an interest in these intricacies is hardly surprising.

I join you, however, in disliking the fact that too often such determinations as the article mentions become "evidence" for yet another round of "We're REAL Christians, and you're not."

What intrigues me is the theory I read somewhere years ago that much of what is collected in the NT in particular is probably merely an assemblage of mystery school writings. In short, Christians regard as God's word what actually was a bunch of students' compositions.

I find that possibility more than wryly amusing.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:22 pm

My gift to all Christians this year: The Jefferson Bible. Laughing

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by tmarie64 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:46 pm



Last edited by tmarie64 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Because it wouldn't matter)

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:54 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly

Reading this got me to read about Phyllis Schlafly. Best note of the article: her oldest son was outed as gay. Very Happy

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:13 pm

I'm currently arguing with a christian about that "spiritually discerned" thing, . . . the thought that "you can't know god until you are his follower, and only then can you understand the things of god, via this spiritual discernment". However, when I point out that many denominations differ on serious issues, thus "where is this 'spiritual discernment' in that?", . . . this person states that "many churches aren't graced like others [meaning his, of course]. They just don't get it.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:03 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly

Reading this got me to read about Phyllis Schlafly. Best note of the article: her oldest son was outed as gay. Very Happy

Oh, Schlafly is even more interesting. You're probably too much of a youngun to know what she's infamous for, TED.

She was the most outspoken of those in opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment, famous for her insistence that women should primarily be homemakers, staying home to raise children and being "helpmeets" for their husbands.

Curious, that, since Schlafly herself is a lawyer with a doctorate, who at one point ran for Congress. Various people wanted to know why it was that she didn't seem to think being a homemaker and having no other career didn't apply to her.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:25 pm

Yeah I was reading all that. Found it pretty interesting....I enjoy stuff like that. She sounds like a real sweetheart.

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:51 pm

Grumble.

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by jumbojava on Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:16 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:My gift to all Christians this year: The Jefferson Bible. Laughing

My gift to them is the promise to not be one of them.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by jumbojava on Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:18 pm

DeavonReye wrote:I'm currently arguing with a christian about that "spiritually discerned" thing, . . . the thought that "you can't know god until you are his follower, and only then can you understand the things of god, via this spiritual discernment". However, when I point out that many denominations differ on serious issues, thus "where is this 'spiritual discernment' in that?", . . . this person states that "many churches aren't graced like others [meaning his, of course]. They just don't get it.

I've come to the simple conclusion that the bible and therefore Christianity is anti-everything-non-Christian.

**shrugs**
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by DeavonReye on Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:44 pm

jumbojava wrote:I've come to the simple conclusion that the bible and therefore Christianity is anti-everything-non-Christian.

**shrugs**

You may be right.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by TPaine on Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:56 pm

Perhaps the main reason I'm happy that I'm not a Christian is because I see little difference between the Religious Right and the Taliban. For instance I offer the following:
David Bahati, a member of the Ugandan Parliament, who wrote a new anti-Gay bill Link 1 that would impose the death penalty for those having gay sex with disabled people, under-18s or when the accused is HIV-positive Link 2, is a member of the American secretive evangelical Christian group known as The Family and is also connected with Pastor Rick Warren Link 3. The Family aka. the Fellowship, headed by Doug Coe Link 4, has deep ties with American as well as foreign politicians Link 5. They are the ones who own the C Street House which is or was the home or meeting place for several of the politicians who have been caught in sex scandals recently. Jeff Sharlet, author of the book The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power was interviewed about the Family on NPR Link 6.

Please excuse all the links, but I wanted to document this because it seems so unbelievable for supposedly civilized people to attempt to enact into law.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by tmarie64 on Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:50 am

This isn't a Christianity debate board. It's a Christianity criticism.
You look at the right wing and criticize ALL of us based on that.
You want respect, yet you show none.

You're no better than the right wingers. You insult and criticize and bitch about ALL Christianity as if you know no good Christians. People who are open minded.

This board should be titled Bitch about Christianity ... not debate. Debate implies conversation, pro and con. I don't feel welcome on this board. Lot of hostility toward all Christians.

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by gillyflower on Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:06 am

I think he is talking about the Religious Right wing of Christianity and that certainly isn't all Christians. The moderate Christians I know don't like the Religious Right either.

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by Davelaw on Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:15 am

I'll go one step further-I am a right-wing fundamentalist Christian and I don't like being painted with the brush of some of my fellows.

Tho, TPaine would argue that I'm an enabler.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by DeavonReye on Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:23 am

tmarie, if I have said anything of offense to you, then I apologize.

I think that the christianity, that is often in the spotlight, is this fundamentalistic narrow minded type and it is easy to forget that there ARE sects of christianity that aren't so ridged and offensive to other religions. It's the "squeeky wheel that gets the greese" kind of thing. But you're correct. Not all of christianity is that way, . . . . it is just unfortunate for those, like you, that the majority of christianity is found in those "you're going to Hell" types, so that's what people criticize.

These uber right wing types are what I post about.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by Davelaw on Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:27 am

...and then I reply that there can be nuances even to that position
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by jumbojava on Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:11 am

tmarie64 wrote:This isn't a Christianity debate board. It's a Christianity criticism.
You look at the right wing and criticize ALL of us based on that.
You want respect, yet you show none.

You're no better than the right wingers. You insult and criticize and bitch about ALL Christianity as if you know no good Christians. People who are open minded.

This board should be titled Bitch about Christianity ... not debate. Debate implies conversation, pro and con. I don't feel welcome on this board. Lot of hostility toward all Christians.

T, sorry if you feel offended.

Do I believe all Christians are etreme right wingnuts? No, of course not.

But I cannot help it. Its the crux of the Christian faith that bothers me; the bible. I find it..... offensive.

No, more than that; I find it more than repulsive. I find it horrifying.

I makes me sick. It saddens my heart.

So much blood, so much death. All in the name of a god that supposedly loves its creation so much that it promises to return and deal more death. Promises of hellfire and damnation. But there is hope in there, there is a message of love in there I am told. Where? Underneath all that bloodshed is a god that has murdered millions in the guise of the humansuit issuing the promise of coming back and ridding the world of all things and people that refuse to worship it. I do not see that as hope. I do not see that as love. I see that as a promise of genocide of billions of non-Christians.

There is simply too much blood in and on the bible for me to take it as any word of god.

Does that mean that all Christians also have blood on thier hands? If they believe in the bible then I have to say yes, they do. If they defend any of the deaths in the bible then yes, they do. And it is those who I must keep at arms length.

Sorry if that offends. But it is how I feel, how I see the bible and the faith it spawned.

I can not ever be a Christian.

Again, sorry if that offends.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by jumbojava on Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:29 am

Davelaw wrote:I'll go one step further-I am a right-wing fundamentalist Christian and I don't like being painted with the brush of some of my fellows.

Perhaps, Dave.

But your bible and thus your god has declared me an enemy to it and thus to you. The only hope for me is to abandon all I hold dear and embrace a system of belief and its god I have no faith in. As an enemy of the bible and to all who worship its god I have no other choices.

The bible has declared war on me long before I was born.

Do you see the dilemma?
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by john5180 on Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:52 pm

tmarie64 wrote:This isn't a Christianity debate board. It's a Christianity criticism.
You look at the right wing and criticize ALL of us based on that.
You want respect, yet you show none.

You're no better than the right wingers. You insult and criticize and bitch about ALL Christianity as if you know no good Christians. People who are open minded.

This board should be titled Bitch about Christianity ... not debate. Debate implies conversation, pro and con. I don't feel welcome on this board. Lot of hostility toward all Christians.

Tmarie, before you cloud up and rain all over the posters here, perhaps you should take the time to find out why there seems to be so much hostility when speaking about Christianity, and Christians. People have been authentically hurt by people falling under that tent, and there is good reason for the resentment.

I agree that there are good people who call themselves Christian. Ironically, those same people, when actually trying to live and act as their beliefs lead them are scrutinized, and blasted by the same folks these people refer to. Sad, isn't it...... a few rotten apples in a religious group, and the whole barrel gets the blame. But this is just the way it is.

I broke with Christianity long before I even knew there was such things as Pagans, or New Age beliefs. And I sure as hell couldn't relate to the other religious beliefs out there such as Judaism, Islam, Hindu or the other of the more main stream. There was no real hatred of the group, but a revulsion of the people who fall under that particular umbrella called Christianity. I don't hate Christians, nor the religion itself.... I simply don't like what the religion forces upon others, and that you much must tow party line to be in this denomination or that. The religion itself frowns on people who actually dare to think on their own.....

Others have faired a whole lot worse at the hands of Christians than I ever could imagine. You can't fault them for their resentments. If the shoe doesn't fit you, stop trying to put it on.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by TPaine on Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:05 pm

tmarie64 wrote:This isn't a Christianity debate board. It's a Christianity criticism.
You look at the right wing and criticize ALL of us based on that.
You want respect, yet you show none.

You're no better than the right wingers. You insult and criticize and bitch about ALL Christianity as if you know no good Christians. People who are open minded.

This board should be titled Bitch about Christianity ... not debate. Debate implies conversation, pro and con. I don't feel welcome on this board. Lot of hostility toward all Christians.
Marie, I'm sorry if I've been misunderstood. I have no problem with the vast majority of Christians. IMO, they are everyday ordinary people doing their best to cope with all the problems in this life.

My problem is with the right wing fringe, the people I call the Christian Taliban. They are not a large segment of the Christian community, but they are the loudest, and, to me, the most threatening. They want political control of the country. The Family, for instance, makes a huge effort to incorporate reactionary Christian politicians into their ranks. I'll be damned if I'll sit back quietly and let those fascists impose some Christian version of Sharia Law in this country.

I also have a problem with proselytizers who come to my door, ignoring no trespassing and no soliciting signs (a poster on another site told me that such signs don't apply to Christian evangelists) to tell me unless I believe as they do my soul will burn in hell. To me, such an attitude is both arrogant and rude. Do they honestly believe that there are people in the United States who have never heard the Christian salvation message? If I want to hear what they have to say, I can find them.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by TPaine on Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:13 pm

Davelaw wrote:I'll go one step further-I am a right-wing fundamentalist Christian and I don't like being painted with the brush of some of my fellows.

Tho, TPaine would argue that I'm an enabler.
Actually, Dave, I don't. From what you've posted both on this board and another one that shall remain nameless, you support the concept embodied in the First Amendment, and even suggested once that I use Madison's veto message to make my point.
You've also mentioned that historically, your family has been persecuted by the very same type of people I criticize. You may be a conservative Christian, Dave, but you're a long way from what I've begun calling the Christian Taliban.
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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:04 pm

Well this is certainly a good and interesting thing to talk about!

What are our preconceived notions about Christianity, and Christians? Why do we have those?

Most of us here who are not Christians were at one point in time. Then something dramatic/traumatic or life altering happened and caused us to not be anymore. There's a lot of baggage that comes with that.

Some of us, especially in the Bible Belt where I live, have to deal with constant persecutions or pressures from Christians in daily life. Try being LGBT, live together unmarried, or some other such criminal activity and see what comes out of it. Of course, are all Christians in the Christian faith persecutory/judgemental? No, not all, but it is what's often experienced and those Christians who aren't out trying to save everyone are essentially going against their faith. There's no denying the Bible says a lot, no matter how you interpret it, that involves saving, gospel sharing, condemning, etc. Even though Jesus said not to judge, repeatedly, and that one will be judged by the measure they judge, all the apostles and books written beg to differ. There's also no denying the amount of biblical violence JJ refers to. So we're looking at "this is a component of faith".

If I find out someone is a Christian, I have to be on really close guard for a good while until I can determine just "how" Christian they are, to be sure I don't get myself into a whole world of trouble by opening my mouth.

I think it's good to look at why we have the associations we do and how those are accurate and inaccurate and what, if anything, can be done to correct any inaccuracies.

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Re: Why I am glad I am not a Christian

Post by DotNotInOz on Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:05 pm

Note to TPaine: Try adding to your No Soliciting sign what we had on ours when we were homeowners. Below the "No Soliciting," I added, "We do not do business, make donations or discuss religion at our front door."

A mere "No Soliciting" didn't work for us either. The addition of the qualifiers did most of the time. When I discerned that the person at the door either couldn't read or didn't want to believe we meant what the sign said, I simply tapped the sign and closed the door in their face.
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