I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

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I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:37 am

Some of you may know that I've been [still] going to the fundi church to help them out with music (because, and not to pat myself on the back, I am a very good bassist). I was in private disagreement with theology and sermons, but stayed because I didn't want to leave them one person short, placing a hardship on them. Well, yesterday, after the service [uh, after the 3rd service that is, . . . 3 morning services because of the number of people that go there, near 8,000 on Sunday mornings, . . . and is something that I didn't get paid for, . . .] the guy that heads up the worship came up to me and said that, although I play well, . . . I DON'T MOVE ENOUGH!! He said that, due to the direction the church was going, I needed to do the [paraphrase] "rock star bobble", or some sort of movement that looks like rock bands performing in concert, and if I wasn't able to do that, they wouldn't be able to have me in the main sanctuary (meaning I'd be playing for the kids areas).

I was dumbstruck at this because I thought it wasn't supposed to be about US, . . . but apparently, I must look and act a certain way, or "people will be distracted", . . .or something. . . . maybe not "get saved". I'm not really sure what he thinks would happen if I didn't do "the rock-n-roll man". I'm not competely motionless, but I don't "bang my head", . . .. . but it's freakin CHURCH! I thought it was all about "how their holy spirit affects people", . . .not how I'm acting, . . . while I'm playing the songs WELL!!

Anyway, I sent them an email stating that the church was going in a different path/direction than I was and that I am stepping down.

Comments? Question?


Last edited by DeavonReye on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : precision)
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by gillyflower on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:38 pm

I think that is a good choice for you. It is funny how, when you are doing something strictly to help out a group like that, they don't realize it and then feel it is okay to demand even more without appreciating the gift they are being given. It's nice that now you can leave them without feeling too bad about it.

One I attended that was going that route had the sermon participants dressing in costume. So much easier to watch that kind of spectacle without having to think.

Congratulations! I think you are well out of it!

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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by Sakhaiva on Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:20 pm

DR, as a musician I'm sorta conflicted with your choice - though it's your choice (and I think you've already made it.) To me, I guess it depends if you have any place else to play or not. Years ago I took issue with a church I played a lot at (though it was a free gig, I landed several paid gigs off it and the experience was fantastic.) I left the church and wound up coming back as my leaving left me with a musical hole.

(Of course I wound up moving 4 hours north so the point is sorta moot now...)

My gut to your OP says to avoid letting the theology get in between a musician and a good place to play, if it really is a good place to play.

On another note, telling you to 'move more' is really stupid. I can't stand choreographed faux praise crap... oh man oh man does that get me. And what the HELL is a rock star bobble? I mean why not create an environment for musicans to GROW in instead of focusing on stage anctics. I also can't stand places that don't know how to mix properly and, worse, crank the crap up so loud my ears ring. It makes no sense to come to church and gain a hearing problem (I've walked out of more than one service due to dB levels) Especially if I'm asked to play at a church like that... if the listeners cannot tell a crescendo from a decrescendo then there's no point in my bothering to play, especially if they ask me to do a 'rock star bobble' (what the hell is that anyways?)

(Music is a very touchy subject for me.)

On yet one more note... because I think it will amuse you... once I was kicked out of an AG church because I "hindered the spirit of God" (Never knew I had it in me.) So maybe don't listen to me; I might lead you astray, like lead you to a Lutheran church or something Wink Speaking of which, if you are a good reader, you can find work at any denomination; even Lutheran's are adding contemporary musicians to their routine. (Though many churches are cutting back their spending, you should still be able to find a regular paying gig)

(rock star bobble.... grrrrrr)
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by Sakhaiva on Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:22 pm

(and don't get me started on 'liturgical dance')
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by tmarie64 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:39 pm

I've never been able to help any organization that I don't believe in. So, I have to say, you're better than me for even holding out this long.
I don't blame you for leaving, they are looking a gift horse in the mouth by saying, "Hey, you don't get paid, but we're gonna ask you to do something that you find asinine so we can entertain people."

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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by MaineCaptain on Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:48 pm

I think you are doing the right thing Deavon, As Gilly said You there helping for free and they simply do not appreciate you.

Their loss, I do hope you find something better, because I also understand what Sak was saying. I sing and when I am unable too I go insane.

But perhaps you can find a Church that wants good music but not a show. I agree with you, I thought it was about the religious message not the dance steps of the musicians. How ridiculous.

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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:03 pm

I say "Trust your gut, Deavon."

There are tons of other churches and other gigs.
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by John T Mainer on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:08 pm

They want you to bang like Black Sabbath while playing like Amy Grant?

hmmmmm,

Just going out on a limb here, but odds are good you can find better and brighter to play and worship with just by walking out the front door and stopping at the first corner.

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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by Sakhaiva on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:13 pm

you know... the longer that 'rock star bobble' thing set with me, the grumpier I got DR. I mean it wasn't that they gave you a request... your OP reads that they gave you an ultimatum.

I don't know about you, but I'm very strong willed and ultimatums never set well with me.

(edit) what john T said!


As one musician to another... just make sure you have a place to play that fills that little spot in your soul. It doesn't matter where that place is as long as it feeds you... know what I'm talkin about?
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:31 pm

Yes, it basically WAS an ultimatum. . . .and, as he said, "I can have someone help train me in how to move". And "if I'm unable to do that, then we have an issue with that". . . . . .

Stuff like that. Not only did they make me sign a "covenant agreement", including "paying tithes AND over and above offering and building projects", now they want me to be their little monkey and dance for them? The stupid thing about it is, I'm probably the best bass player they had. But, you know, whatever they want. . . . .whereever they want to take their church, it is ridiculous that I have to leave because of "not moving enough".

I'm not sure where I can go. There may be some other place, . . . . but I'm not completely broken up about this. I will be a little sad to not play with some of the people I got to know there, . . . but on the other hand, I won't have to listen to their uber fundamental theology. . . and roll my eyes.
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by tmarie64 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:45 pm

I wouldn't stay with any church that demanded my money on top of my volunteer time.

There are many churches that would happily take in a good musician.

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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by Sakhaiva on Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:11 pm

agreed (and pay you as well)

DeavonReye... that contract thingie reminds me of indulgences. Maybe we ought to nail up a copy of the 95 theses to their front door.

Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better work that he who feeds a hungry building fund (Sakhaiva paraphrase of theses # 43)
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by TPaine on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:02 pm

Deavon, shouldn't someone tell the guy that heads up the worship that Eric Clapton never moved very much nor did he do a "rock star bobble" when in concert, yet he had a rather successful career despite that?
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:13 pm

There are churches and then there are what an acquaintance of mine once referred to as "Christertainment," i.e. these enormous churches with massive video screens, indoor swimming pools, bowling alleys, fitness centers, a restaurant.

Too bad Jesus hasn't shown up yet. It would be interesting indeed to see what he thinks of this industry conducted in his name.
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by gillyflower on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:57 pm

Sometimes, when we are conflicted about a place and whether we need to move on, the universe gives us quick boot to the rump to get us out the door because obviously, we aren't getting the subtle approach. Just saying. It really won't surprise me to find that this opens up much more satisfying opportunities for you, Deavon. It just has that feel to it.

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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:08 pm

Laughing
I've heard it all now! I'm not a musician but I love music of any kind. Enjoying all the reads that have been posted so far. Laughing
Deavon, it would disturb me very much if I attended a church that I had to conform to spiritually, & financially, let alone appearance wise when it comes to "praising". (Lets micro manage down to the last detail, because they can not practice what they preach). You have really been in turmoil as of late, & you stepping up & out to search for Spirit is awesome. Some matters people find very private. Well, hon, your not crazy or insane, infact your quite normal & yes you have character & integrity. You have compassion & are willing to give of yourself. Spirit has found a true seeker.
You have been in tormoil w all of this, for awhile. Maybe you thought you owed this church some musical comfort, but I see that Spirit won out by knowing what is best for you! Follow spirit right out the door, happily & enjoy the freedom.
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:13 am

TPaine wrote:Deavon, shouldn't someone tell the guy that heads up the worship that Eric Clapton never moved very much nor did he do a "rock star bobble" when in concert, yet he had a rather successful career despite that?

True. But apparently, the younger generation wants the wobble/bobble/hip thrust, etc. Some of the greatests musicians (with huge followings) didn't move much at all.
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:16 am

DotNotInOz wrote:There are churches and then there are what an acquaintance of mine once referred to as "Christertainment," i.e. these enormous churches with massive video screens, indoor swimming pools, bowling alleys, fitness centers, a restaurant.

Too bad Jesus hasn't shown up yet. It would be interesting indeed to see what he thinks of this industry conducted in his name.

Well, this church doesn't have a swimming pool or bowling alley, . . . but they do have the three large screens, the fitness center, and Starbucks in two locations.
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:22 am

gillyflower wrote:Sometimes, when we are conflicted about a place and whether we need to move on, the universe gives us quick boot to the rump to get us out the door because obviously, we aren't getting the subtle approach. Just saying. It really won't surprise me to find that this opens up much more satisfying opportunities for you, Deavon. It just has that feel to it.

Willowcreek70633 wrote:Laughing
I've heard it all now! I'm not a musician but I love music of any kind. Enjoying all the reads that have been posted so far. Laughing
Deavon, it would disturb me very much if I attended a church that I had to conform to spiritually, & financially, let alone appearance wise when it comes to "praising". (Lets micro manage down to the last detail, because they can not practice what they preach). You have really been in turmoil as of late, & you stepping up & out to search for Spirit is awesome. Some matters people find very private. Well, hon, your not crazy or insane, infact your quite normal & yes you have character & integrity. You have compassion & are willing to give of yourself. Spirit has found a true seeker.
You have been in tormoil w all of this, for awhile. Maybe you thought you owed this church some musical comfort, but I see that Spirit won out by knowing what is best for you! Follow spirit right out the door, happily & enjoy the freedom.

Well ladies, you're right. I've had a struggle while being there, . . .conflicted with my sense of loyalty for their sake, but then often rolling my eyes at what was being preached. I kinda thought that something else would be the catalyst, . . . like them requiring that "all members of the worship team need to be filled with the spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues", or something like that. I just had no idea it would be, "Deavon, you need to start moving more, or you can't play in the main sanctuary". I've told this to many people, . . . even some of my christian friends, and pretty much everyone has had a "that's ridiculous" type of answer. One lady just kept saying, "wow", . . . several times as she thought about it.

Well, I'm not sure where I'll be going next. Right now, I'm going to step away from it all and try to see where I go. . . . . and who's there waiting for me (Spirit). I still have yet to find a specific path, . . . but maybe I was never going to be able to when I wasn't ON the right path with helping this church. I guess I have to wait and see what happens next.
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by AutumnalTone on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:24 am

DeavonReye wrote:
True. But apparently, the younger generation wants the wobble/bobble/hip thrust, etc. Some of the greatests musicians (with huge followings) didn't move much at all.

I imagine it's more the case that some older folk think the younger generation wants the bobble.

Hey, if they want to pay for your time, wear whatever monkey suit they require and help choreograph the whole stage show. That's what working musicians do.

If they're not paying for your time then they can't expect anything other than what you offer. As you've been paying them for your time, they should be asking you what they can do for you.

Sadly, most folks don't appreciate anything freely given them. The best drumming students I had were those paying. Those I was teaching for free (because we were in the same activity group) were the flakiest. I once donated a hand drum for a charity auction, along with a handful of lessons. The drum was bought and the lessons were never collected--despite the value of the lessons being much more than that of the drum!
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:25 pm

Yeah, . . . if they were paying me a going rate for a Sunday, . . . I'd perform the part they expected, sure.

As I sit here, . . . I am just dumbfounded at how incredibly stupid this whole thing is!!
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by MaineCaptain on Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:36 pm

I am dumbfounded too, Deavon.

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Like your new Pentacle

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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:30 pm

Thanks, MaineCaptain! I saw it and just decided to have it. It is about 1 and 1/8 inch in diameter. Love the copper coloring, along with the "aged" look of the darker parts of the edges.

As for this topic, . . . . . it's hard NOT being dumbfounded. I know I was while I was standing there as he was telling me all of this. I was like, . . . WTF??
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:04 pm

Very Happy These things happen to the best of us, Deavon! And without the sometimes blantant "smack yo in da face" ugliness, or in your case, stupidness...we just wouldn't of wandered & wondered across a field with Spirit, showing us our paths!
What you said above darlin, you have reached a time in your life, that you have chosen not to conform to certain ideas! Ideas that you hold sacred to your inner soul, sacred to who you are.
You have something within you that is a gift (music) it should be shared, not exploited & controlled!
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Re: I may be done at my current fundi church... "music related"

Post by DeavonReye on Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:10 pm

I hope to be able to share it, too.

I got an email from the guy who said all that to me, on Sunday, . . . basically being disappointed that I'm leaving, saying that I will be missed, and hoping that I'll come back at some point in the future. I think it is more likely that what will be missed is my gift, . . . not me, personally, . . . though I can't read into his mind that. It isn't as though I was EVER invited to "get something to eat" after a church service, by him, . . . . . rarely by anyone else, and that was some time ago.

It's a bit sad, though. I've known them for about 3 years and put in about that many years of service.
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