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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:32 pm

On the whole I agree with whoever did that summary. The show, other than the final match, looked like Russo's booking, not Sleazy-E's. I would continue to push Angel, AJ, Joe, Wolfe, Daniels, Hernandez, and Dinero and add the X-Division, tag teams like the Guns the British Invasion, Beer Money, Homicide & Kiyoshi and Jeff (if he can compete) & Shannon. A short term Nasty's vs. 3D would work for some of the older fans, but I would dump Morgan (he's hopeless except for pure size), Steiner, Raven, and Abyss.
Hall, Nash, and Waltman are now being called the Band. Could we see them as Sleazy-E's muscle, with Eric trying to move Dixie out of the picture? She could counter with Hogan, Foley, and JJ. Then Hogan turns heel, and Sting joins the faces. Maybe I'm still living in the '90s. They were using something as close to the nWo theme as they could get without being taken to court as his theme last night. I wonder if they could get away with Voodoo Child?
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:43 pm

The summary and review was pure me.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:39 am

Ebon wrote:The summary and review was pure me.

Congratulations!! I thought it was a professional blog. You don't have a wrestling web site, do you?

Anyhow, do you think that 5* main event at least balanced out the clusterfuck of a cage match that seemingly killed any future for the X-Divison in the eyes of WWE fans who probably watched only the first hour? It has to be Russo. Who else is stupid enough to disgrace the best thing TNA has going. Maybe Vince is smart enough to see his days are numbered and he took the one chance he had to fuck up the opening with a shitty gimmick. I didn't understand the Pope/Wolfe booking either. Wolfe had a record of getting the best of Kurt Angel, yet you job him in a match with a career mid-carder like Elijah Burke. If you want to push Dinero give him a win over Rhino or Jesse Neal.
I was pleased by the ratings increase: Link
I'm afraid they're going to overvalue the ratings, and try to compete head to head with Raw. This could actually work for a brief time as TNA has better talent than Raw at this point, but Vince would respond by pulling all his top people from ECW and Smackdown, and he would have the talent edge. TNA should stick to their Thursday night schedule, mark their time, and continue to develop young talent from the indie promotions.
I see that the WWE has signed Bryan Danielson. I think Brian made a mistake. He would have been perfect in the TNA X-Division at 5'9" 185lbs. I'm afraid he'll be an Evan Bourne clone in the WWE, at best a JTTS.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:20 am

TPaine wrote:Congratulations!! I thought it was a professional blog. You don't have a wrestling web site, do you?

Used to but it went black when I was declared bankrupt about 18 months ago.
Anyhow, do you think that 5* main event at least balanced out the clusterfuck of a cage match that seemingly killed any future for the X-Divison in the eyes of WWE fans who probably watched only the first hour?

Open question. I think, for those fans who stuck around, the main event will be what they remember. However, the fact that the ratings dropped hour-by-hour means that at least a few of the casual fans who tuned in will have seen Steel Asylum and tuned straight out again. If TNA has any sense, they'll just dump the Asylum cage, it never does anyone any good.

It has to be Russo. Who else is stupid enough to disgrace the best thing TNA has going. Maybe Vince is smart enough to see his days are numbered and he took the one chance he had to fuck up the opening with a shitty gimmick.

The tragedy of Russo is that he doesn't intentionally make things awful. He genuinely thinks he's a great booker. This is despite having ready access to ratings, annual reports and so on. At one point, Mike Tenay actually confronted him with this on live TV and Russo still believes he's great. Only Michael Steele is more immune to reality.

I didn't understand the Pope/Wolfe booking either. Wolfe had a record of getting the best of Kurt Angel, yet you job him in a match with a career mid-carder like Elijah Burke. If you want to push Dinero give him a win over Rhino or Jesse Neal.

I'd like to see Dinero pushed. His character is strong enough that he could evolve into a reliable upper-mid-card act and a five-minute win over Rhino or any of the other talent that wasn't used on the show would have been helpful. Personally, I would have had Wolfe vs. Joe which could have been such a strong technical match that it doesn't matter if Wolfe gets defeated. Meanwhile, put Dinero in a face-vs-face match with Abyss or against, say, Rob Terry for five minutes. A quick win over someone expendable (even I don't care about Terry) would have been perfectly acceptable.

I was pleased by the ratings increase: Link
I'm afraid they're going to overvalue the ratings, and try to compete head to head with Raw. This could actually work for a brief time as TNA has better talent than Raw at this point, but Vince would respond by pulling all his top people from ECW and Smackdown, and he would have the talent edge. TNA should stick to their Thursday night schedule, mark their time, and continue to develop young talent from the indie promotions.

A 1.5 isn't what TNA was hoping for but again, even the nWo took a while to get going and it's a perfectly acceptable base to build on. The fact that the viewers declined as the show went on was, I think, largely due to the overbooking that kept most of the matches short. Again, that can be easily rectified as time goes on. Going up against RAW every week would be a mistake at this point for all the reason you mentioned. Better to keep the Thursday slot and do occasional Monday specials (say, quarterly?) for the time being.

I'm not sure what the obsession with competing with Vince directly is all about anyway. The wrestling market is big enough to support two or more full-time promotions without needing to directly compete. Sure, you're going to compete in terms of who can put on the better card and that's good for both viewers and the boys but there's no need to counter-program each other. These are not the days of JCP and WWF. If you attract Vince's ire before you're ready, he will crush you. But he won't do it automatically. He didn't go all-out to destroy WCW until Bisch started counter-programming him and he maintained a long policy of non-interference (and even covert help) with ROH and ECW. Don't try going toe-to-toe with Vince until you're ready but if you're occupying a niche audience, that's a different story.

I see that the WWE has signed Bryan Danielson. I think Brian made a mistake. He would have been perfect in the TNA X-Division at 5'9" 185lbs. I'm afraid he'll be an Evan Bourne clone in the WWE, at best a JTTS.

Fully agreed and Danielson doesn't have Bourne's aerials to make him stand out either. On the other hand, Danielson's mat wrestling, British-influenced style would have made him a perfect candidate for great matches with, for example, Alex Shelley and Desmond Wolfe.

Using Voodoo Chile costs a fortune and the Hendrix estate is very protective. WCW were paying $100K per show to use the theme. That said, some kind of cover version or soundalike could be easily knocked up. Jordan seems to be in for the long haul, which amazes me, so you can probably add him to The Band. Bisch is obviously going to be making some kind of power-play, the question is where Hogan fits in. I'm intrigued because I can't figure out where this is going (and that's a good thing).
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:42 pm

Ebon wrote:
Open question. I think, for those fans who stuck around, the main event will be what they remember. However, the fact that the ratings dropped hour-by-hour means that at least a few of the casual fans who tuned in will have seen Steel Asylum and tuned straight out again. If TNA has any sense, they'll just dump the Asylum cage, it never does anyone any good.
Agreed. Cage matches do not transfer well to TV. If they're going to do an X-Division they'd be far better off with the Ultimate X concept which allows much more opportunity for the X-Division workers to show their talents.

Ebon wrote:The tragedy of Russo is that he doesn't intentionally make things awful. He genuinely thinks he's a great booker. This is despite having ready access to ratings, annual reports and so on. At one point, Mike Tenay actually confronted him with this on live TV and Russo still believes he's great. Only Michael Steele is more immune to reality.


Ebon wrote:I'd like to see Dinero pushed. His character is strong enough that he could evolve into a reliable upper-mid-card act and a five-minute win over Rhino or any of the other talent that wasn't used on the show would have been helpful. Personally, I would have had Wolfe vs. Joe which could have been such a strong technical match that it doesn't matter if Wolfe gets defeated. Meanwhile, put Dinero in a face-vs-face match with Abyss or against, say, Rob Terry for five minutes. A quick win over someone expendable (even I don't care about Terry) would have been perfectly acceptable.
There's recent history between Dinero and Team 3D, Rhino, and Jesse Neal. 3D was suposedly in Japan, but he could have gone with Rhino, Neal, or Abyss and then left Wolfe free to go 10 to 15 minutes with Joe. Between that and Angle/AJ they could have had two five star matches during the 3 hours.

Ebon wrote:A 1.5 isn't what TNA was hoping for but again, even the nWo took a while to get going and it's a perfectly acceptable base to build on. The fact that the viewers declined as the show went on was, I think, largely due to the overbooking that kept most of the matches short. Again, that can be easily rectified as time goes on. Going up against RAW every week would be a mistake at this point for all the reason you mentioned. Better to keep the Thursday slot and do occasional Monday specials (say, quarterly?) for the time being.
Given the pure talent TNA can throw into a two hour show, I think they'd be smart to extend matches and keep the bullshit to a minimum. If Jeff Hardy can handle a match I'd love to see him and Shannon Moore against the Guns.

Ebon wrote:I'm not sure what the obsession with competing with Vince directly is all about anyway. The wrestling market is big enough to support two or more full-time promotions without needing to directly compete. Sure, you're going to compete in terms of who can put on the better card and that's good for both viewers and the boys but there's no need to counter-program each other. These are not the days of JCP and WWF. If you attract Vince's ire before you're ready, he will crush you. But he won't do it automatically. He didn't go all-out to destroy WCW until Bisch started counter-programming him and he maintained a long policy of non-interference (and even covert help) with ROH and ECW. Don't try going toe-to-toe with Vince until you're ready but if you're occupying a niche audience, that's a different story.
My guess would be Bischoff. He's known for a huge ego, and has never gotten over Turner killing WCW. I think he believes since he did it once he can do it again. The trouble is, he's starting with the nWo gimmick which he drove in the ground before. At least it seems that Hall, Waltman, and Jordan only have short term deals. I'm not sure about Hogan. He may be more of a realist than Sleazy E, but then again he thought he could wrestle.

Ebon wrote:Fully agreed and Danielson doesn't have Bourne's aerials to make him stand out either. On the other hand, Danielson's mat wrestling, British-influenced style would have made him a perfect candidate for great matches with, for example, Alex Shelley and Desmond Wolfe.
Or maybe Chris Daniels? I hear TNA signed the Young Bucks and supposedly they had a good dark match at an Impact taping against the Guns. I know nothing about them having never seen them. If they're good, it's another great tag team for TNA.

Ebon wrote:Using Voodoo Chile costs a fortune and the Hendrix estate is very protective. WCW were paying $100K per show to use the theme. That said, some kind of cover version or soundalike could be easily knocked up. Jordan seems to be in for the long haul, which amazes me, so you can probably add him to The Band. Bisch is obviously going to be making some kind of power-play, the question is where Hogan fits in. I'm intrigued because I can't figure out where this is going (and that's a good thing).
If its true that Jordan, Hall, and Waltman are only signed short-term, at least they can't run the angle too long. 10 to 1 before the term expires Hall will show up too drunk to work, or not show up at all.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:55 am

TPaine wrote:Given the pure talent TNA can throw into a two hour show, I think they'd be smart to extend matches and keep the bullshit to a minimum. If Jeff Hardy can handle a match I'd love to see him and Shannon Moore against the Guns.

Hardy is certainly in ring shape, especially in conjunction with Moore. The worry with Hardy is that his trial on drug trafficking charges ("trafficking" was a formality based on the amount found but Jeff is such a space case, that may have been his personal stash) is upcoming and, looking at the charges, he'll be lucky to escape jail time.

Or maybe Chris Daniels? I hear TNA signed the Young Bucks and supposedly they had a good dark match at an Impact taping against the Guns. I know nothing about them having never seen them. If they're good, it's another great tag team for TNA.

The Young Bucks are Nick and Matt Jackson, two brothers from California. They're very promising, albeit a little raw but they're still young so they have time to learn. In terms of style, they remind me very strongly of the Midnight Rockers. Same kind of high-energy, high-flying style and intricate cross-ups. They could have outstanding matches with the Guns or Hardy/Moore or even Lethal Consequences.

If its true that Jordan, Hall, and Waltman are only signed short-term, at least they can't run the angle too long. 10 to 1 before the term expires Hall will show up too drunk to work, or not show up at all.

I ain't taking that bet because I think that's a cert. Are there any promotions left that Hall hasn't been fired from? Assuming Waltman's sober, I don't mind him sticking around for a while, he could be a useful X-Division worker.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:48 pm

Ebon wrote:Hardy is certainly in ring shape, especially in conjunction with Moore. The worry with Hardy is that his trial on drug trafficking charges ("trafficking" was a formality based on the amount found but Jeff is such a space case, that may have been his personal stash) is upcoming and, looking at the charges, he'll be lucky to escape jail time.
A lot has to do with what type of drugs he had. Pot is treated much differently than coke, crack, of crystal meth. I don't know what they found in his possession. If he has no prior convictions, a decent attorney, and the prosecution can't prove attempt to traffic he could get a suspended sentence.

Ebon wrote:The Young Bucks are Nick and Matt Jackson, two brothers from California. They're very promising, albeit a little raw but they're still young so they have time to learn. In terms of style, they remind me very strongly of the Midnight Rockers. Same kind of high-energy, high-flying style and intricate cross-ups. They could have outstanding matches with the Guns or Hardy/Moore or even Lethal Consequences.
So it would be another major gain for the X-Division.

Ebon wrote:I ain't taking that bet because I think that's a cert. Are there any promotions left that Hall hasn't been fired from? Assuming Waltman's sober, I don't mind him sticking around for a while, he could be a useful X-Division worker.
The last time Hall showed up on TNA he caused major non-kayfabe heat between Samoa Joe and Nash. When Hall pulled a did not show for an event, TNA management told Joe to do a shoot promo, and Joe told the world what he thought about Hall's actions. Of course the shoot pissed off Scott's BFF, Nash. I've always seen Waltman as trouble you don't want in your promotion. I think he's been fired from more promotions than Hall has. Have you ever seen Jim Cornette's shoot on Bishoff, WCW, and the nWo? If not here a link: Link
I think Cornette hit the nail right on the head.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:40 pm

TPaine wrote: A lot has to do with what type of drugs he had. Pot is treated much differently than coke, crack, of crystal meth. I don't know what they found in his possession. If he has no prior convictions, a decent attorney, and the prosecution can't prove attempt to traffic he could get a suspended sentence.

According to Rick Scacia (who I tend to trust due to his record for reporting actual facts during the Benoit Tragedy), cops found (*deep breath*): 262 Vicodin, 180 Soma, 555ml of anabolic steroids, a residual amount of powder cocaine along with various items of drug "paraphenalia". He's been charged with one misdemenour and five felonies, three of which are upgraded to "trafficking" automatically due to the sheer amount involved (although, as said, Jeff is enough of a space case that I could believe it being his personal stash). He was given bail of $125k, paid by his long-suffering brother. Because Vicodin is an opiate, one of those charges is for opium tafficking.

The amount of pain pills were almost three times what you're allowed to have legally even with a prescription (which Jeff didn't have) and, although he doesn't have any relevent priors AFAIK, he has a total of five disciplinary infractions from WWE, all for drugs (the third of which led to his firing and then being rehired later) and his last stint with TNA (prior to the current one), they were famously reluctant to use him due to his drug-related flakiness.

So it would be another major gain for the X-Division.

Yep. Both are talented enough that they could pull double duty in both singles and tags. Both are too small for the heavyweight end but fit perfectly into the X-Division (and the X-Division could use it's own tag title if there was enough tv time to do it).

The last time Hall showed up on TNA he caused major non-kayfabe heat between Samoa Joe and Nash. When Hall pulled a did not show for an event, TNA management told Joe to do a shoot promo, and Joe told the world what he thought about Hall's actions. Of course the shoot pissed off Scott's BFF, Nash. I've always seen Waltman as trouble you don't want in your promotion. I think he's been fired from more promotions than Hall has. Have you ever seen Jim Cornette's shoot on Bishoff, WCW, and the nWo? If not here a link: Link I think Cornette hit the nail right on the head.

I have seen that and I've always wondered why Vince put it on his show. Not that a lot of what Cornette said wasn't true (although calling Bisch "pansy ass" is pushing it, the guy's a karate champion) but, in Cornette's own words, did it sell tickets and, if not, why is it on your show? During interpromotional competition, running down the other side has never done your side any favours and it often backfires (witness Tony Schivone telling Nitro's viewers that Folay was about to win the WWF title, at which point, half of them flipped over to watch). What he said may have been true but it's not going to sell tickets.

I used to think much the same about Waltman until he did some tours with New Japan. Away from the spotlight and his buddies, Waltman was focused, disciplined and incident-free. What seems to happen with Waltman is that when he's around Hall and/or Nash, the three of them are a bad influence on each other. Hall also did incident-free, worthwhile tours of Japan and Puerto Rico but crashed as soon as he got back to the USA. I make a few allowances for Hall because the guy is so obviously an alcoholic and therefore, not entirely in control of his actions but would I book him on my show? Hell no. When he's sober, Hall is a half-decent performer (although never any great shakes) and a decent draw but it's increasingly rare for a sober Hall to show up for work.

After thinking about it, I wouldn't book Waltman either. I think the kid's got talent and he's less likely to show up wasted than Hall (albeit, not by much) but his personal problems and history of temper-related disciplinary infractions means I wouldn't want to book him on a regular basis either. At least, not until he's proven himself to be clean for a considerable length of time. Finally, Nash is someone I'd be willing to book. Although you've got to be aware of Nash's backstage political games and that, at 50 and with a heart condition, the guy can't wrestle anymore, he's a good talker and he'd make a decent manager.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:46 pm

Oh yeah, one other thing. That "opium trafficking" charge, if convicted, carries a minimum three-year sentence in North Carolina (Jeff's home state), even for a first offence.

One has to assume that Jeff and his lawyer (and he has the financial resources to secure a good lawyer) are looking for a deal here.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:50 am

Ebon wrote:
According to Rick Scacia (who I tend to trust due to his record for reporting actual facts during the Benoit Tragedy), cops found (*deep breath*): 262 Vicodin, 180 Soma, 555ml of anabolic steroids, a residual amount of powder cocaine along with various items of drug "paraphenalia". He's been charged with one misdemenour and five felonies, three of which are upgraded to "trafficking" automatically due to the sheer amount involved (although, as said, Jeff is enough of a space case that I could believe it being his personal stash). He was given bail of $125k, paid by his long-suffering brother. Because Vicodin is an opiate, one of those charges is for opium tafficking.

The amount of pain pills were almost three times what you're allowed to have legally even with a prescription (which Jeff didn't have) and, although he doesn't have any relevent priors AFAIK, he has a total of five disciplinary infractions from WWE, all for drugs (the third of which led to his firing and then being rehired later) and his last stint with TNA (prior to the current one), they were famously reluctant to use him due to his drug-related flakiness.
A standard Vicoden contains 5 mg of hydrocodone, which is the weakest form of all the opioids. That's a total of 1280 mg. It is also only a Schedule III drug which is fairly common, while most opiates are found in Schedule II. Soma (Carisoprodol) is not on the US Schedule that I can find. Knowing the bumps Jeff has taken in his career, and the injuries he has sustained, I think it was his personal stash, and the
state will be hard pressed to get a trafficking conviction. If the state of North Carolina wants to bust pushers, let them get the assholes who are selling really dangerous stuff to junior high school kids.

Ebon wrote:Yep. Both are talented enough that they could pull double duty in both singles and tags. Both are too small for the heavyweight end but fit perfectly into the X-Division (and the X-Division could use it's own tag title if there was enough tv time to do it).
They could do a tournament at a PPV for the X-Division tag titles. With teams like the Guns, Lethal Consequences, Hardy & Moore, Homicide & Kiyoshi, and The Young Bucks it would be exciting to say the least.

Ebon wrote:I have seen that and I've always wondered why Vince put it on his show. Not that a lot of what Cornette said wasn't true (although calling Bisch "pansy ass" is pushing it, the guy's a karate champion) but, in Cornette's own words, did it sell tickets and, if not, why is it on your show? During interpromotional competition, running down the other side has never done your side any favours and it often backfires (witness Tony Schivone telling Nitro's viewers that Folay was about to win the WWF title, at which point, half of them flipped over to watch). What he said may have been true but it's not going to sell tickets.
Everyone blames Schiavone for that. He didn't want to make the announcement, but was ordered to by Bischoff.

Ebon wrote:I used to think much the same about Waltman until he did some tours with New Japan. Away from the spotlight and his buddies, Waltman was focused, disciplined and incident-free. What seems to happen with Waltman is that when he's around Hall and/or Nash, the three of them are a bad influence on each other. Hall also did incident-free, worthwhile tours of Japan and Puerto Rico but crashed as soon as he got back to the USA. I make a few allowances for Hall because the guy is so obviously an alcoholic and therefore, not entirely in control of his actions but would I book him on my show? Hell no. When he's sober, Hall is a half-decent performer (although never any great shakes) and a decent draw but it's increasingly rare for a sober Hall to show up for work.

After thinking about it, I wouldn't book Waltman either. I think the kid's got talent and he's less likely to show up wasted than Hall (albeit, not by much) but his personal problems and history of temper-related disciplinary infractions means I wouldn't want to book him on a regular basis either. At least, not until he's proven himself to be clean for a considerable length of time. Finally, Nash is someone I'd be willing to book. Although you've got to be aware of Nash's backstage political games and that, at 50 and with a heart condition, the guy can't wrestle anymore, he's a good talker and he'd make a decent manager.
I can't disagree with that.The question is, how much pull does Nash have with Hogan and Bischoff? Will he be able to pull too many strings in the booking? Look what Hogan's done already. When he shows up, so do his buddies the Nasty Boys. How long will it be until we see Ed Leslie and Jimmy Hart? If Brooke ever wins the Knockouts Title I may be forced back to the WWE.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:15 am

From what I read, Ric Flair has signed a one year contract with TNA that calls for 65 appearances during that time.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:22 am

TPaine wrote: A standard Vicoden contains 5 mg of hydrocodone, which is the weakest form of all the opioids. That's a total of 1280 mg. It is also only a Schedule III drug which is fairly common, while most opiates are found in Schedule II. Soma (Carisoprodol) is not on the US Schedule that I can find. Knowing the bumps Jeff has taken in his career, and the injuries he has sustained, I think it was his personal stash, and the
state will be hard pressed to get a trafficking conviction. If the state of North Carolina wants to bust pushers, let them get the assholes who are selling really dangerous stuff to junior high school kids.

One would hope that common sense would prevail here and Hardy would get a deal (followed by rehab, as he obviously has some problems).

They could do a tournament at a PPV for the X-Division tag titles. With teams like the Guns, Lethal Consequences, Hardy & Moore, Homicide & Kiyoshi, and The Young Bucks it would be exciting to say the least.

Works for me. Add a few makeshift teams to make up the numbers. Eight teams gives you seven matches. Add a title match and there's your PPV. In fact, make the title match for the X title (say, Red Vs Homicide) and you have an entirely X-Division PPV. Not only does that give the boys a chance to shine but it's something entirely unique that you won't find on WWE or anywhere else in the West.

Everyone blames Schiavone for that. He didn't want to make the announcement, but was ordered to by Bischoff.

Oh, not his fault, I know but still a stupid decision. I gather Bisch was frequently writing teh show while it was on-air at that point.

I can't disagree with that.The question is, how much pull does Nash have with Hogan and Bischoff? Will he be able to pull too many strings in the booking? Look what Hogan's done already. When he shows up, so do his buddies the Nasty Boys. How long will it be until we see Ed Leslie and Jimmy Hart? If Brooke ever wins the Knockouts Title I may be forced back to the WWE.

Nash is an interesting case. He and Hogan have never seen eye-to-eye, dating back to an incident in WCW where Nash told him, to his face, that he wanted Hogan's spot (Hogan apparently replied that he wasn't giving it up, brother). On the other hand, Bisch likes the guy and let him book more-or-less what he liked in the dying days of WCW. I can live with the Nastys in the short-term, so long as their role is limited to having a few wild brawls with, say, Beer Money, they'll be fine. But like you, I'm dreading who comes next. John Tenta passed away but Ed Leslie was, last I heard, working for the NYC subway and Jimmy Hart isn't doing anything special.

With regard to Flair, that's what I'm hearing too. As long as they don't try to have him wrestle more than once or twice during that year, that's fine. The guy can still cut a hell of a promo and since many of the roster are weak on promos, giving them Flair as a spokesman makes perfect sense.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:27 am

Couple of other news bites:
- Steve Austin has been confirmed to host RAW a couple of weeks before WrestleMania.
- Bret Hart is hinting at a WM match with McMahon (which surprises me, I thought he was legally barred from wrestling).
- Sheamus's opponant at teh Royal Rumble will apparently be Randy Orton.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:00 pm

Ebon wrote:Works for me. Add a few makeshift teams to make up the numbers. Eight teams gives you seven matches. Add a title match and there's your PPV. In fact, make the title match for the X title (say, Red Vs Homicide) and you have an entirely X-Division PPV. Not only does that give the boys a chance to shine but it's something entirely unique that you won't find on WWE or anywhere else in the West.
They also have the finals be an Ultimate X match with the first team to grab the belts win the title. you can find a brief history of Ultimate X matches Here

Nash is an interesting case. He and Hogan have never seen eye-to-eye, dating back to an incident in WCW where Nash told him, to his face, that he wanted Hogan's spot (Hogan apparently replied that he wasn't giving it up, brother). On the other hand, Bisch likes the guy and let him book more-or-less what he liked in the dying days of WCW. I can live with the Nastys in the short-term, so long as their role is limited to having a few wild brawls with, say, Beer Money, they'll be fine. But like you, I'm dreading who comes next. John Tenta passed away but Ed Leslie was, last I heard, working for the NYC subway and Jimmy Hart isn't doing anything special.

With regard to Flair, that's what I'm hearing too. As long as they don't try to have him wrestle more than once or twice during that year, that's fine. The guy can still cut a hell of a promo and since many of the roster are weak on promos, giving them Flair as a spokesman makes perfect sense.

The promo in the Monday Impact seemed to be setting up a feud with Team 3D. That makes sense because the two teams have been around seemingly forever, but I can find no record of their ever having a match against each other. It would be an interesting brawl.

Flair would be a good counter to Hogan if Hogan went heel. He does cut a good promo, but I think the best promo guy in the 4 Horseman was AA. Just personal opinion.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:13 pm

Ebon wrote:Couple of other news bites:
- Steve Austin has been confirmed to host RAW a couple of weeks before WrestleMania.
- Bret Hart is hinting at a WM match with McMahon (which surprises me, I thought he was legally barred from wrestling).
- Sheamus's opponant at teh Royal Rumble will apparently be Randy Orton.
- If Vince is paying Austin's asking price for an appearance, methinks he may be feeling some heat from down south.
- Bret looks to be in good shape, but the stroke in his background would worry me. I don't think he could perform a standard match, but something with a run in soon after it began might be possible. I hope Vince's ego hasn't deluded him into thinking that he could carry the main event at Mania.
- I look for it to become a 3-way before the Rumble. I didn't watch Raw, but I understand that Orton got what was almost a face pop from the crowd. There's no way Vince would turn his top Raw heel face, is there? Who knows what they're doing with Jericho, and word is Edge will go to Raw when he returns from injury, so they do have some backup.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:55 pm

3D and the Nastys should be able to knock up a cracking unhinged brawl since that's teh speciality of both teams.

Bret is in decent shape, considering but due to both his stroke and the legal settlement with Lloyds (he had to sue Lloyds to get a payout for his career-ending injury), he's not in any fit shape to wrestle. A run-in or management gig (and the Hart Dynasty seem to be edging toward tweener status) would be ok though.

I can't see Orton being turned face. It's been tried and he's just not a very likeable person. Now, that could always change, especially if teh roster gets shaken up again but for now, I would imagine he'll do something heinous in the near future to re-cement him as a heel.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:55 pm

I admit that I haven't been following wrestling for the last seven or eight years. One of the things that turned me of was when Dustin Rhodes turned up in the WWE as " GOLDDUST ". That & because it was getting to the point that I could figure out who was going to win & who wasn't. And to be quite honest it has became more of a circus lately. And that includes both the WWE & TNA. I guess I'm just old fashion. For the days of Fritz Von Eric, Johnny Valentine, Wahoo McDaniel, Bulldog Bob Brown, Bruiser Brody, etc. Don't get me wrong. Todays Wrestlers are just as much athletes as anyone. And they have to stay in shape in order to do the things they do inside the ring. The moves have to be done precisely by all involved in order to avoid being injured. Just like in any other sport.

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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:35 pm

warlordofks wrote:I admit that I haven't been following wrestling for the last seven or eight years. One of the things that turned me of was when Dustin Rhodes turned up in the WWE as " GOLDDUST ". That & because it was getting to the point that I could figure out who was going to win & who wasn't. And to be quite honest it has became more of a circus lately. And that includes both the WWE & TNA. I guess I'm just old fashion. For the days of Fritz Von Eric, Johnny Valentine, Wahoo McDaniel, Bulldog Bob Brown, Bruiser Brody, etc. Don't get me wrong. Todays Wrestlers are just as much athletes as anyone. And they have to stay in shape in order to do the things they do inside the ring. The moves have to be done precisely by all involved in order to avoid being injured. Just like in any other sport.
I go back further than you do. My favorite as a kid was Lou Thesz, perhaps the greatest of all times, as well as wrestlers like Danny Hodge, Dick Hutton, Verne Gagne, Jack Brisco, Karl Gotch, and Billy Robinson.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:44 pm

Ebon wrote:Bret is in decent shape, considering but due to both his stroke and the legal settlement with Lloyds (he had to sue Lloyds to get a payout for his career-ending injury), he's not in any fit shape to wrestle. A run-in or management gig (and the Hart Dynasty seem to be edging toward tweener status) would be ok though.
I'm not sure how it will go down but I see Bret putting Vince in the Sharpshooter at Wrestlemania, refusing to release the hold, and the Hart Dynasty keeping anyone who wants to break it up away.

Ebon wrote:I can't see Orton being turned face. It's been tried and he's just not a very likeable person. Now, that could always change, especially if teh roster gets shaken up again but for now, I would imagine he'll do something heinous in the near future to re-cement him as a heel.
That's why I see this turning into a three-way dance with a face who will either win the belt or keep Orton from winning it. Either Kofi or Cena could fill that role. Kofi, given his current heat with Orton might fit better.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Guest on Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:06 am

TPaine wrote:
warlordofks wrote:I admit that I haven't been following wrestling for the last seven or eight years. One of the things that turned me of was when Dustin Rhodes turned up in the WWE as " GOLDDUST ". That & because it was getting to the point that I could figure out who was going to win & who wasn't. And to be quite honest it has became more of a circus lately. And that includes both the WWE & TNA. I guess I'm just old fashion. For the days of Fritz Von Eric, Johnny Valentine, Wahoo McDaniel, Bulldog Bob Brown, Bruiser Brody, etc. Don't get me wrong. Todays Wrestlers are just as much athletes as anyone. And they have to stay in shape in order to do the things they do inside the ring. The moves have to be done precisely by all involved in order to avoid being injured. Just like in any other sport.
I go back further than you do. My favorite as a kid was Lou Thesz, perhaps the greatest of all times, as well as wrestlers like Danny Hodge, Dick Hutton, Verne Gagne, Jack Brisco, Karl Gotch, and Billy Robinson.

Oh I remeber all of those wrestlers also. Like Bobo Brazil, Bruno Samartino, & so many more whose names I can't remember but can picture in my mind.

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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:24 am

TPaine wrote:That's why I see this turning into a three-way dance with a face who will either win the belt or keep Orton from winning it. Either Kofi or Cena could fill that role. Kofi, given his current heat with Orton might fit better.

I'd prefer to see Kofi in that role. Firstly, Cena's carrying some fairly serious back injuries. Secondly, WWE could use a new headliner and Kofi has the tools. Thirdly, how many times have we seen black wrestlers get just *this* close to breaking through and then get shunted back into the midcard?
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:34 am

Recap of Impact:
The Young Bucks make their debut on Impact under the name "Generation Me". They had a very good but rather short match with the Machineguns and took the victory. Apparently, this is part of a tourney of some kind (which wasn't explained very well) but here's hoping that leads into an extended Bucks Vs Guns program because the two teams meshed very well and put together an engrossing high-speed, high-flying match in the short time they had.

Nastys are apparently still in Team 3D's dressing room. Do they not have homes to go to?

Hogan promo, putting TNA over. Sorry, Terry, not wanting to see you.

Kurt Angle promo. Puts over AJ styles as the better man. Then adds "...that night". AJ comes out, admits it could have gone either way. Kurt says he wants a rematch (fair enough) and leaves. The masked man bumrushes AJ again and then removes his mask to reveal... Tyson Tomko?!?! Huh? That's rather disappointing, TNA usually gives us bigger names with their "mystery wrestler" angles.

Christy Hemme interviewing The Band (please, TNA, come up with a better name!). Bubba the Love Spooge appears (oh Zeus, he's sticking around?), dismisses Christy and asks where Mick Foley has been? Um, Disneyland? The Band stall until Spooge gives up and bounces it to...

The Beautiful People, on their way to the ring and, oh hey, Angelina Love is back (guess the visa got sorted). Usual pre-match antics from the BP with Love being unusual stoic on the outside. This is a non-title match with Awesome Kong & Hamada. Hamada is your (time-compressed) Face In Peril and the BPs get some decent double-team shots in until Hamada manages a desperation takedown. Cue hot tag, cue Kong, cue demolition. Kong destroys the BPs like she's King Kong Bundy playing with midgets at 'Mania III. Madison Rayne is the one who takes the (completely academic, by now) pinfall.

After the match, Angeline Love beats the crap out of Velvet Sky, while screaming that she (Love) can't be replaced. See, WWE, it is possible to do storylines with women that don't revolve around jealousy!

AJ barges his way into Bisch's office, demands to see Hulk. Bisch makes a point of correcting him to "MR Hogan". O...K, never mind. AJ demands a match with Tomko, Bisch agrees if Aj puts the title on the line. AJ screams "BOOK IT!" and pounds the table for no apparent reason. As he storms out again, Bisch says he loves that kid. Well, that was entirely pointless.

Beer Money is now looking for Bisch. As good as Bisch's "Sleazy E" character is, can we avoid making him the centrepiece of Impact please?

Borash (he's still employed?) now barges into Bisch's office and asks what happened to Foley. Bisch tells Borash to go find Foley, blames him for letting Foley in last week and says if he screws up again, he's gone. Again, pointless. Now, Beer Money are in Bisch's office. This place is getting to be like the X-Mansion, everyone drops in. Beer Money want Hall & Nash at Genesis. Bisch accepts a beer and says he'll consider it.

Lethal Consequences out to face Team 3D. Well, they were. But then Bobby Lashley turns up and massacres both of them. Krystal gets on the mic and says Bobby will destroy the roster one at a time until they get their meeting with Hogan. Hmm, could have been done with someone more expendable (Matt Morgan, for example) but I like how this act is working. Bobby can't talk so Krystal talks with Bobby the business end of her mouth. Works for me.

Brother Ray hits the ring with a frickin' AXE! He clocks Lethal in the head (thankfully, with the blunt side). Quick 3D and they pick up a cheap win then head backstage to their locker room. Nice touch as they remove their nameplate from teh door and then smash it in with the axe. They briefly survey the mess and then the Nastys jump them. You know how some guys stuff looks painful but isn't and some guys work looks like shit but hurts? Well, the Nastys seem to have decided to leave no room for error and just beat the crap out of 3D. Watching this, you get some idea how unhinged the program between those two teams could be.

Tomko promo running down AJ. Dull.

Sean Morley is out (billed as Sean Morley). He avoids the "Hello, ladies" catchphrase but otherwise, hits his usual schtick. Which brings out... Chris Daniels? Really? Brief beatdown from Daniels followed by the BME. Daniels grabs a mic, does a quick rant about how he didn't fight his way back from being "fired" to have Morley's filth stink up the ring. Morley revives himself, ejects Daniels from the ring. Chris "Fallen Angel" Daniels, who had a dvd called "Heaven Sent, Hell Bound" and who's "firing" was a pure comedy angle to bring in his Curry Man persona, has a moral problems with a bald Canadian pretending to be a porn star? TNA, are you fucking ribbing me?

Video package hyping Tara/ODB.

Brief shot of Jeff Jarrett and someone I don't recognise.

Matt Morgan/Hernandez Vs Beer Money. Match was ok for the first few minutes but just ok (and Morgan gets the blame for that). Hernandez back in, hits a bloody impressive springboard and tope to the outside. Unfortunatly, now that the match has started rocking, Rob Terry pokes his nose in and the ref calls it. Terry and Hernandez brawl to teh back while The Band makes their way to the ring where they beat the hell out of Beer Money. That brings out Bisch and then we... go to commercial? Lousy time management there.

Bisch says something cryptic about the next round being on him then says he doesn't know what to do with The Band. Hall helpfully suggests a raise. OK, that was actually funny. Bisch makes Beer Money Vs Hall & Nash for Genesis.

Sting hanging out in the rafters again. I understand that drawing inspiration from the nWo angle was inevitible but I'm not sure if re-playing it exactly is going to work fourteen years down the line.

Desmond Wolfe is in the ring. Pope DiAngelo Dinero is providing hilarious commentry. And Wolfe's opponant is... IT'S JOE! OK, this is what I wanted to see. Tie-up leads to quick confirmation that Joe leads by a country mile in the power department as he bounces Wolfe around like one of those blow-up punchbags kids get for Christmas. Wolfe gets a brief hope spot with a European uppercut before running into a positively evil powerslam. Joe tries and fails for the Coquina Clutch but continues to dominate until Wolfe FINALLY gets his head together and hits the hammerlock driver to take control. Wolfe dominates for a few minutes and, after one countered attempt, hits the Tower of Llondon... and gets the win? Damnit, that match needed more time. What they had a chance to show us was superb with an effective story contrasting Joe's slam-bang offense with Wolfe's British-influenced aggressive mat wrestling. But, and this was a problem last week too, just when the match started heating up, it was over. I'm begging TNA to match these two at Genesis and give them a good twenty minutes or more. The results could be phonomenal.

Genesis promo. Since I won't be able to see it live, I don't care.

Tomko promo. Oh please, spare me.

Jarrett and random dude cut a promo on Hogan. Jarrett says there isn't enough talent in TNA to fill a coffee cup and it's all about him (a JJ heel turn? Surprising). Bisch materialises out of nowhere to essentially tell JJ that he's full of shit. JJ gets in Hogan's face, Hogan tells him to take a hike or get beaten up (by a 56-yr old Hogan?). JJ leaves, Bisch and Hogan bitch about him. And how many tickets did that sell?

Another Genesis promo. Still don't care.

Ric Flair is here and they've redone "Also Sprach Zarathustra" as a guitar piece. Dumb decision and pointless, since it's public domain.

Aj Vs Tomko and this is what passes for a main event. Talk about a comedown, we go from Kurt Angle to Tyson Tomko in 10 days. AJ starts it off with FIRED UP! offence. Then Tomko takes over and it's duller than fog. Bypassing Tomko's dire offence, AJ eventually takes over, enziguri, Pele kick, pinfall. Tomko tries for a post-match beatdown but Angle breaks it up. Angle offers his hand to AJ, AJ just gives him the death glare and leaves. Flair smiles at this from the top of teh ramp and Angle glares at him instead of AJ's departing back. And that's your show.

Not bad but again, matches were a bit too short and would it have killed JJ to have rehearsed his material so it didn't come off as a ranting mess? Also, Bubba the Love Spooge is still on my tv which is never a good thing.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:16 pm

News & rumours report:

Rumour reaching my ears is that Hall & Waltman are routinely smashed backstage (booze for Hall, who knows for Waltman) and probably not long for the company. Nash didn't vouch for them and has made it very clear that they're not his responsibility so no blame attaches to him. Additionally, Hall is claiming a groin injury of some kind (few believe him) so Waltman will be filling in against Beer Money tonight.

TNA is back to the four-sided ring tonight. Stupidly, no-one bothered to tell the boys about this before they turned up at the arena so everyone's having to frantically re-arrange their spots.

Ken "Kennedy" Anderson has signed with TNA. Just debuted with a cheap win over Abyss. Still doing the same schtick.

Eric Escobar has been released by WWE. No great loss there.

Bubba the Love Spooge apparently made some fairly vile comments about Haiti earlier (along the lines of "Fuck Haiti"). A few fans let Dixie Carter know their displeasure and apparently, "Bubba's Army" are now harassing them.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:59 pm

Couple of notes from the Genesis replay:
- Red Vs Kendrick was good until it fell apart about two minutes before the finish.
- Morgan/Hernandez take the tag titles, despite the Brits wrestling circles around them.
- I was right. Given more time, D'Angelo Dinero and Desmond Wolfe put together a fine match which, sadly, played before zero crowd heat. Dinero started out hot before Wolfe took over mid-match and worked over Dinero's leg with a clinic of British-style technical wrestling. Highlights included a standing vinelock, a smooth double-leg takedown rolled through into a cross-leg STF and that old favourite, the rope crack snapmare. Finish featured Dinero setting up his knee-rush and running straight into a positively sick lariat from Wolfe for the win.
- Tara beats ODB for the women's title in two straight falls. Been a while since we've seen that. Match was pretty good but Tara's capable of better.
- Nash/Waltman Vs Beer Money was exactly what you'd expect. Nash should categorically not be working matches at his age and in his condition (although, in fairness, he did make the effort when he was in there) and Waltman pretty much phoned it in. One had to feel for Beer Money here, as they gave it their best try but in the end, they couldn't make up for their lacklustre opponants.
- AJ Vs Angle was just as good as you'd expect. AJ's heel turn in the closing moments was strange though.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:25 pm

IMO, Hernandez actually has talent. Morgan is a total waste of space. Sean Morley was a jobber in the WWE and they sign this guy and give him a win? Why are they jobbing Chris Daniels? The guy has real talent and fits well in the X Division. It was supposed to be Nash and Hall against Beer Money, but when Hall showed up he said was hurt, so they had to substitute Waltman. SOS out of Hall. I hope their short-term contract is really short.

I have no idea who's booking. Is it Russo? Sleazy E? I doubt if it's Hogan. Someone should tell them they need to boost the X Division, AJ, Wolfe, Dinero, Angle and Joe. Forget the old nWo (with Bischoff there that will never happen), Morley, Morgan, and other stiffs.

The AJ heel turn caught me completely by surprise. I guess that rates as good booking. Could it be that Flair is going to form a Four Horseman type group and take the JJ Dillon role? He'd need a good enforcer in the AA role (Joe?) and a decent tag team (the Guns can work heel as can Beer Money).
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Re: Wrestling thread

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