Wrestling thread

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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Mon May 03, 2010 2:13 am

Couple of notes from Smackdown: Kofi Kingston scored a win over Jericho. Hopefully, that's a signal to restart Kofi's on-off push.

Edge turned heel again in a killer promo with Christian. Just as well, Edge works better as a heel.

Show spent most of the show wandering around punching out anyone he happened across, which was kinda fun.

Jack Swagger's "Jack Facts" are deeply irritating, in the desired way.

MVP seems to have been drafted into the feud between Mysterio and the Straight Edge Society. Which is fine. I think MVP has a ton of potential and Rey was going to need some backup.

Swagger is doing a good job of getting over as a pompous dick. Now he's been put in a program with Show who finishes up the night by laying him out with that 1-punch KO.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Tue May 04, 2010 3:19 pm

TNA Impact is officially moving back to Thursday nights. After getting massacred by RAW almost every week, that's probably wise.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Wed May 19, 2010 4:20 am

Bret Hart is now US champion. Given that he's in no shape to work any kind of decent match (as WrestleMania proved), I have no idea what the point of this is.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Fri May 21, 2010 9:59 am

Ebon wrote:Bret Hart is now US champion. Given that he's in no shape to work any kind of decent match (as WrestleMania proved), I have no idea what the point of this is.
I remember reading that originally Bret was only signed through Wrestlemania. Perhaps he stayed on in order to give the Hart Dynasty a push. They were the ones that actually performed in the match. I thought Bret's Lloyd's of London policy precluded his working matches.
In TNA Sting has gone totally heel which is something he has refused to do since his days in the UWF. Even during his time in the Main Event Mafia he still exchanged high fives with the fans on the way to the ring. I wonder why the change? I know Bischoff wanted him to play a heel role in WCW, but he wouldn't do it. Also, according to him this is his last year in the business. Does he really want to go out as a villain?
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sun May 23, 2010 4:42 am

I thought the same of Bret's Lloyds policy. As I understood it, he could do a beatdown (as he did at Mania), so long as he didn't take any blows himself.

With regard to Sting, I suspect this is to set up a triumphant face turn later in the year. He did very briefly work as a heel during Bisch's WCW admin but it was so brief (literally, less than two weeks) that I think everyone's forgotten about it.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Sun May 23, 2010 3:56 pm

Ebon wrote:I thought the same of Bret's Lloyds policy. As I understood it, he could do a beatdown (as he did at Mania), so long as he didn't take any blows himself.
He didn't actually take any blows last Monday, as he went down and knelt by the ropes as the Hart Dynasty cleaned house. Putting the US belt on someone who can't work a match seems strange to me, but then again most of what the McMahons do seem strange to me.
BTW, Linda McMahon won in the Connecticut Republican Convention this month, but will have to win a primary in August to get the nomination. Superstar Billy Graham,
Bruno Sammartino, Chyna, Larry Zbyszko, and the Blue Meanie have come out in opposition to her candidacy as has Michael Benoit, the father of Chris Benoit. Hulk Hogan and Jesse Ventura have come out in support of her.

Ebon wrote:With regard to Sting, I suspect this is to set up a triumphant face turn later in the year. He did very briefly work as a heel during Bisch's WCW admin but it was so brief (literally, less than two weeks) that I think everyone's forgotten about it.
I remember the two weeks in WCW. Sting started his career as a heel as one of the Blade Runners w/Jim Hellwig, and from there joined Hotstuff and Hyatt International with Eddie Gilbert, Rick Steiner, and Missy Hyatt in the old UWF. He turned face after a match with Terry Taylor when Gilbert interfered costing Sting the match. I thought he felt that a heel role would damage his Christian image and hurt his evangelizing efforts.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Mal5252 on Fri May 28, 2010 10:11 pm

Hi ,

I heard Batista is going over to TNA now, but watch, he'll go back to WWE

Mal
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Sat May 29, 2010 10:44 am

Mal5252 wrote:Hi ,

I heard Batista is going over to TNA now, but watch, he'll go back to WWE

Mal
I don't see Dave going to TNA anytime soon. To begin with is injured (again) and he makes far too much money for TNA to afford him. I would like to see him team with Tomko, but think Shelton Benjamin would be a far smarter pickup for TNA. They wouldn't have to pay him as much as they would have to pay Batista, he's not as injury prone, and he's a much more talented wrestler.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sat May 29, 2010 11:49 pm

I also think TNA is an unlikely destination for Batista. Batista is injury-prone, a fairly limited worker (and TNA is a promotion built on having great matches) and often a royal pain backstage. He's also more expensive than TNA would like to pay. If his asking price was the only issue, they could probably work something out but combined with his other issues, TNA will probably take a pass.

I think it's more likely that Batista will try to make it as in mainstream media as an action star. It's doubtful he'll make it (he doesn't have Rocky's humour or traffic-stopping charisma) but he might.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Sun May 30, 2010 7:48 pm

Ebon wrote:I also think TNA is an unlikely destination for Batista. Batista is injury-prone, a fairly limited worker (and TNA is a promotion built on having great matches) and often a royal pain backstage. He's also more expensive than TNA would like to pay. If his asking price was the only issue, they could probably work something out but combined with his other issues, TNA will probably take a pass.

I think it's more likely that Batista will try to make it as in mainstream media as an action star. It's doubtful he'll make it (he doesn't have Rocky's humour or traffic-stopping charisma) but he might.
A couple of web sites have pictures of Dave doing MMA training. Doesn't he realize that the injuries he gets now are in worked matches? MMA matches are contests. He's taking a huge chance taking that route.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Mal5252 on Mon May 31, 2010 7:30 pm

Hi all,
I remember the wrestling (WCW) way back in the '70's. I wish they would bring back that type again. Today's wrestling is so obviously rehearsed and if anyone really does get hurt it's only by sheer accident. Bring back the blood!!!
Mal
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Mon May 31, 2010 10:23 pm

Mal5252 wrote:Hi all,
I remember the wrestling (WCW) way back in the '70's. I wish they would bring back that type again. Today's wrestling is so obviously rehearsed and if anyone really does get hurt it's only by sheer accident. Bring back the blood!!!
Mal
Hi Mal,
I grew up in the '50s when there were still some skilled wrestlers in the business who could actually wrestle. They didn't need the choreographed moves they have today or the brawling style and blood that used to predominate in ECW during the late '90s. However, I realize that the day of the true hooker has passed, and there are very few shooters left either. There are some talented wrestlers around, but they never seem to get that big push. Maybe it's because management is jealous of their ability. I don't know. Two of the best, Brock Lesner and Bobby Lashley have moved into MMA. Shelton Benjamin was released by the WWE. Jack Swagger and Kurt Angle are still around as is Vladimir Kozlov, but Kozlov might be a better fit in MMA with his expertise in sambo, kickboxing, and judo. The rest are just performers including my favorite tag team, the Motor City Machine Guns.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Mal5252 on Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:29 am

Hi Mal,
I grew up in the '50s when there were still some skilled wrestlers in the business who could actually wrestle. They didn't need the choreographed moves they have today or the brawling style and blood that used to predominate in ECW during the late '90s. However, I realize that the day of the true hooker has passed, and there are very few shooters left either. There are some talented wrestlers around, but they never seem to get that big push. Maybe it's because management is jealous of their ability. I don't know. Two of the best, Brock Lesner and Bobby Lashley have moved into MMA. Shelton Benjamin was released by the WWE. Jack Swagger and Kurt Angle are still around as is Vladimir Kozlov, but Kozlov might be a better fit in MMA with his expertise in sambo, kickboxing, and judo. The rest are just performers including my favorite tag team, the Motor City Machine Guns.
[/quote]

Hi TPaine,
I remember the good ol' 70's with wrestlers like Andrea the Giant; Haystacks Culhoon; Sgt. Slaughter; The Iron Sheik; Skull Murphy; the British Bulldog, etc. etc. That was real entertainment. I lived in Sydney (Aust) then. Andrea the Giant was everybody's favorite.

Mal
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:06 am

Mal5252 wrote:
Hi TPaine,
I remember the good ol' 70's with wrestlers like Andrea the Giant; Haystacks Culhoon; Sgt. Slaughter; The Iron Sheik; Skull Murphy; the British Bulldog, etc. etc. That was real entertainment. I lived in Sydney (Aust) then. Andrea the Giant was everybody's favorite.

Mal
I remember all of them and can add Skull Murphy's tag team partner, Brute Bernard. They held the WWWF United States Tag Team Championship, the Florida version of the NWA Tag Team Championship, and the NWA World Tag Team Championship in Australia. When you say the British Bulldog, do you mean Davey Boy Smith as a singles wrestler or the tag team when Smith teamed with the Dynamite Kid? Davey Boy's son, David Hart Smith wrestles in the WWE now as one third of the Hart Dynasty along with Tyson Kidd and Natalya (the daughter of Jim Neidhart.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:26 pm

I think the transition to highly chereographed matches was really because of the thansition to national touring. While wrestling has been rigged since World War I, the fact that the wrestling world was divided into territories back then meant you had more freedom in how you constructed your match. You'd just get the result and a rough time estimate from the booker and then ad-lib the rest in the ring.

When the transition to TV led to a permanent, national touring schedule, the boys simply didn't have the time to work out every detail of their match so they'd lay-out one match and then perform the same match in every city on the circuit. That meant that workers stayed healthy longer but also removed the spontenaity.

You can blame Vince for the loss of the blood. When WWF moved to being a national TV force in the early eighties, Vince decided he wanted to target kids and that meant removing the blood (mostly, people still got busted open by accident). Since Vince was the most successful, everyone followed his lead.

There are only a few shooters still left in wrestling. Will Regal is one. He came up through the Blackpool Riot Squad, a notoriously tough scene who used to do the "last three rounds" game around the tourist towns. Why every promoter has asked him to play an upper-class snob rather than capitalising on that is beyond me. Kurt Angle is still around although his body is falling apart. Brock Lesnar jumped to MMA, Shelton Benjamin may follow him. Bobby Lashley tried doing both (as Bob Sapp did in Japan) but the schedule couldn't be worked out and, for now, he's concentrating on MMA. Vlad Kozlov is a hell of a fighter but a lousy performer. Jack Swagger may or may not be allowed to show his stuff, it's too early to say.

Most of the guys from the seventies are sadly dead now. Andre passed away from the same condition which made him so huge, ditto Haystacks Calhoun. Davey Boy Smith died of a heart attack, probably caused by his massive steroid intake. The style that made Dynamite famous ended up crippling him, he now lives in assassited housing here in England. Sgt Slaughter is still alive and well though. He now works backstage for the WWE. Likewise, the Iron Sheik is still with us, you can find numerous interviews with him on YouTube (yes, the accent is real).
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Mal5252 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:12 pm

Hi again TPaine ,
yes Davey Boy Smith was the British Bulldog that I used to see down-under.

Mal
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:51 pm

Couple of minor news bites from the weekend.
- Ric Flair did an interview saying that he thought Desmond Wolfe/Nigel McGuiness has all the necessary tools for becoming a world champ. I think he's right there but whether he'll get the chance is another matter. TNA don't seem to be able to decide what to do with him and Vince has never really understood the British style (hence Regal's struggle to integrate the US and UK styles and Dynamite having to invent a whole new style for himself).

- Linda McMahon says that the long-term effects of steroid use are unknown. I'm not sure whether to call this a lie or breathtaking ignorance.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:37 pm

Ebon wrote:Couple of minor news bites from the weekend.
- Ric Flair did an interview saying that he thought Desmond Wolfe/Nigel McGuiness has all the necessary tools for becoming a world champ. I think he's right there but whether he'll get the chance is another matter. TNA don't seem to be able to decide what to do with him and Vince has never really understood the British style (hence Regal's struggle to integrate the US and UK styles and Dynamite having to invent a whole new style for himself).

I agree with Flair. Desmond/Nigel/Steven has the necessary ring skills to match up with anyone in TNA or the WWE. Actually, I happen to enjoy the British style and wish I could see more of it. Why is it that British wrestlers always have to play the heel role when their skill set would make them impressive babyfaces? I'd rather see those who have no real technical skills booked as heels so they can more legitimately use their brawling skills while the technicians can display their skills as faces.

Ebon wrote:- Linda McMahon says that the long-term effects of steroid use are unknown. I'm not sure whether to call this a lie or breathtaking ignorance.
I'd have to go with lie on this one. After all, she has to protect her hubby who was one of the leading steroid dealers as well as users. Either way we don't need either a liar or an ignoramus in the Senate.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:09 pm

TPaine wrote: I agree with Flair. Desmond/Nigel/Steven has the necessary ring skills to match up with anyone in TNA or the WWE. Actually, I happen to enjoy the British style and wish I could see more of it. Why is it that British wrestlers always have to play the heel role when their skill set would make them impressive babyfaces? I'd rather see those who have no real technical skills booked as heels so they can more legitimately use their brawling skills while the technicians can display their skills as faces.

One possibility is that Vince, like many Irish-Americans, bears an irrational hatred of the English. Finlay (from Northern Ireland), Sheamus (Irish) and Drew McIntyre (Scots) are all getting a decent amount of TV time while Will Regal (from Blackpool) has generally been booked as a comedy character and Paul Burchill (from Surrey) couldn't buy a break. Desmond/Nigel/Steve is from South London so he'd probably get the same despite being one of the best examples yet of integrating teh British and American styles.

Or maybe Vince just remembers how much of a prick Dynamite was backstage and takes it out on all the other Brits.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:13 pm


New idea. Build your own promotion. Two rules: No more than ten perfomers in each category and nobody currently under WWE contract. Also, you're aiming at a promotion somewhere between WWE and TNA in size and reach so budget responsibly. My picks:

Top-Line: I'll take RVD, Joe and Angle straight away. Angle is, when healthy, one of the best workers in the world and Joe isn't too far behind. While RVD isn't as good a worker, his flashy, aerial style makes him a worthwhile draw and adds something a bit different. I'll also take Desmond Wolfe/Nigel McGuiness and revert him to the ruthless, hyper-aggressive thug he was during his initial TNA run. Add Roderick Strong from ROH and you've got a solid worker who can mix it up in a range of styles. I'll also take Tyler Black from ROH for his innovative style. AJ Styles needs no additional praise from me. And Booker T is a prime piece of talent and an established draw.

Upper Mid-Card: Straight away, I'll take Shelton Benjamin with the intention of building him up for a top-line run over the first six months or so. Shelton has the talent to main event straight away but he was so wasted over his last few years with the WWE that getting him over again will have to be my first priority. Also on the list and criminally underrated in my opinion, is Charlie Haas. He has a great style that lends itself to longevity and the story of dedicating his career to his late brother Russ is a real tearjerker. Add Chris Hero from ROH, a longtime journeyman who can permanently reside in this position and have a decent match with pretty much anyone. Paul Burchill comes in as the mid-card's resident monster. A big man who moves like a cruiserweight, Burchill is another one who can go to the top in time. Hernandez is another one I think might have the talent to top-line. If Shawn O'Haire is still interested in wrestling, he'd be another great talent to have on-board. Homicide is an incredible talent who I'd love to have on the roster.

Mid-Card: Mr Anderson doesn't have the talent to go much higher but, since he's capable of cutting hysterical promos and has charisma to spare, he's worth having around. Ditto Carlito Colon whose Hispanic heritage (like that of Hernandez) gives him a valuable appeal to a growing demographic. ROH's Eddie Edwards is another guy worth having around. Personally, I never thought D'Lo Brown got the push his talent deserved so I'll rectify that here (an afterthought, his ethnicity may have played a part in his missing his deserved push in WWE). Jerry Lynn is a veteran always worth having around for his ability to carry anyone to an acceptable match. Colt Cabana is best known for comedy but has some absolutely sparkling technical skills under his belt which would mesh well with the British style of my final pick for this category, Doug Williams.

Tag-Teams: Without a second thought, I'll take Beer Money and the Motor City Machineguns from TNA. Superb teams both, with a valuable ability to wrestle in both tags and singles as the need arises. I'd also snap up the Briscoe Brothers (Mark & Jay) from ROH. Their phonomenal aerial skills and their meth-addicted redneck look could make them great heels. Generation Me/Young Bucks are another team with great high-flying skills but natural faces. Finally, Chris Daniels & Rhino form the classic loudmouth and bodyguard tandem with Rhino's slambang style acting as the business end of Daniels mouth.

Cruiserweights: TNA has a load of great cruiserweights under contract and instantly, I'll snap up Shonnon Moore and Frankie Kazarian. Eric Young is a great talent who can't seem to catch a break so putting him here under a manipulator gimmick. Austin Aries has skills and credibility. Shawn Daivari has suffered under a parade of racist gimmicks so I'd like to see what he can do as himself. Amazing Red is always fun to watch. Britain's Pac is nicknamed "the man gravity forgot" and leaves my mouth hanging open every time I see him. Jack Evans's human pinball impression and white-guy-who-wants-to-be-black character makes him a good guy to have there and his matches with Pac and Red would leave you in awe. Petey Williams has a glowing reputation as a solid worker who never looks lost and with just enough pizazz to make him stand out. If Yoshihiro Tajiri can be tempted to return to the west, he's worth whatever he asks for. Finally, while Shark Boy will never be a champion, his act is amusing and he's a solid worker.

Managers: Yes, I'm proposing the return of managers. I think they provide a great way of covering for workers who have the talent but perhaps lack the verbal skills to make themselves stand out. If they're good, they can even become top heels in their own right (Bobby Heenan being a prime example). Roven is a guy who is, I think, in the twilight of his in-ring career but his ability to cut a fantastic promo remains undiminished. I think Raven assembling and managing another merry band of weirdos would be a good way to provide vocal representation to talented workers like Paul Burchill, Petey Williams and Tyler Black. Likewise, Jim Mitchell (the Sinister Minister) can get a grade-A promo to put his guys over and has a sufficiently different style to Raven that there wouldn't be a conflict between the two. His initial charges would be Petey Williams and Generation Me. Sharmell Huffman is a polished part of Booker's act that I'd have no compunction about signing.

Other: For commentry duties, I'll take Mike Tenay to do play-by-play but for colour, I'd like to give a chance to Shane Douglas. If you never heard Douglas call a match in ECW or WCW (and he only did it a few times in each), trust me. The guy's a lot better than you'd think. For booking, the obvious choice is Paulie Heyman but Paulie seems happy in his gig doing the Heyman Hustle and possibly couldn't be tempted back for any amount of money. Assuming he couldn't be convinced, I'd see if I can tempt Jim Cornette or Gabe Sapolsky (former ROH booker). Tommy Dreamer had some good ideas and might be worth a place as an assisstant. Raven also has some good ideas and could pull double-duty with his manager gig.

Not Included: There are some obvious omissions from this list. Goldberg, while a proven draw, was never better than a mediocre worker and costs far too much for a guy who had no real passion for wrestling. Nash, Hall and Waltman are some more I'll take a pass on. Nash is worthwhile as a comedy manager and Waltman is capable of some decent matches but they're expensive and too much trouble backstage. Bobby Lashley is someone I would like to have on the roster but his MMA schedule is too much of a headache to work around right now. Without Bobby, his wife Kristal isn't worth having around. Team 3D have been around since the invention of dirt, cost a lot and Bubba is a pain backstage. Pretty much everything that can be done with them has been done already. Orlando Jordon is still a waste of space, ditto Matt Morgan. Necro Butcher is one hell of a brawler but brings a lot of expectations of ultragore with him that I'm trying to get away from. Rob Terry has a great body but nothing else. I haven't included female workers simply because TNA is the only promotion which really has a female roster and, with the exception of Lacey Von Erich, I'd just hire the lot of them.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:52 pm

Brian Danielson has been released from WWE. There is no justice. Danielson is probably the best pure wrestler in the western world right now but because he gained a sparkling indie reputation and doesn't look like a bodybuilder, Vince brought him in just to ridicule and humiliate him, then released him. *sigh*

On the other hand, my wrestling federation is sat by the phone, asking Danielson to name his price to become the cornerstone of my cruiserweight division. In his later ROH appearences, Danielson perfected a cocky wiseguy persona. A little like Curt Hennig's "Mr Perfect", Danielson was the guy who bragged about how great he was and then backed it up. I would build the cruiserweight division around him, permanently either chapion or chasing the title.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Also, Grizzley Smith, father of Jake Roberts, Sam Houston and Rockin' Robin, passed away Saturday of complications relating to Alzheimers at the age of 78.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:23 pm

Ok, how can I build a roster when you have already taken everyone I would pick? Shouldn't we have a draft where we get to pick one at a time (or with tag teams one team at a time)? Also, why can't we cherry pick the WWE roster? They have quite a few people who can't get a break that I'd like to have. Workers like Regal, Killings, Bourne, and Cody Rhodes. I'd also like to grab Masahiro Chono who's currently working in Hawaii. he may be somewhat old, but anyone trained by Lou Thesz and Stu Hart has to have some exceptional skills.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by Ebon on Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:43 pm

Well, since we're spitballing here, you can pick the same guys as me Smile The logic behind banning WWE picks was that all the WWE roster are under exclusive contracts but if we ignore that, I want Kofi Kingston. I think he has the talent to go top-line relatively quickly.

Chono is one of those guys who was really something special in his prime but age and injuries have slowed him down a lot. Nevertheless, his asking price is reasonable so if you want him, you got him.
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Re: Wrestling thread

Post by TPaine on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:17 pm

We're going to do a lot more agreeing than disagreeing I think.
Headliners: Samoa Joe, RVD, AJ Styles, Desmond Wolfe, and for limited action in a feud between the two Kurt Angle and Masahiro Chono.
Top Mid Card: Shelton Benjamin, William Regal, Paul Burchill, D'Angelo Dinero, John Morrison, and Hernandez
Mid Card: Doug Williams, Eric Young, Jay Lethal, Ron Killings, Rhino, and Ken Anderson.
Cruiserweights: Chris Sabin, Alex Shelley, Amazing Red, Homicide, Chris Daniels, Jeremy and Max Buck, Kazarian, Evan Bourne, and Brian Danielson.
Tag Teams: Beer Money, Motor City Machine Guns, Generation Me, and LAX.

Whoops! we have a major thunderstorm going on. I'll finish this tomorrow in another post.
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Re: Wrestling thread

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