Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:45 pm

mmm, well Dot, gotta disagree there, hon! Your last post. See kids aren't that "hold back" ticket. Society says they are. (Thats why I posted that above post about our kids are used for the REASONS NOT TO do something). Our daughter got pregnant, earlier than she or her man wanted to. They were both working 2 jobs in New Orleans. She got pregnant & thought she screwed up her life. Moved outta New Orleans, & in with His parents. Got married. (They put the cart before the horse). Had baby Kyrie, but through persistence, she's enrolled in a nursing school there in VA. She got some pell grants, & some student loans to go to this school. Kids are not a handicap, Dot,....sometimes they are a REASON to better your life, or just to continue on with it.
For teen pregnancy, & young adult pregnancy...all young adults both male & female should be made to do a 4yr stunt in the military. There they can learn responsibility for self, team work, loyalty, see something other than their little world, learn a career/job, travel, & draw a paycheck.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:27 am

Filipovic seemed to me to be saying that giving money to girls who don't get pregnant wasn't fair to those who do and could nevertheless succeed in higher education. She appeared to be saying that it ought to be a level playing field with everyone entitled to go to college. I disagree and see nothing at all wrong with rewarding girls statistically more likely to get pregnant because a sister is a teen mother.

By putting "should be able" in quotes, I was thinking of those who regard college as a time for largely unfettered fun and games without having to balance homemaking, childcare and studies.

I didn't mean that teen parents ought not even think about going to college but rather, as your daughter did, that they will have somewhat more responsibilities to work around if they are to get a college education.

Didn't express myself very clearly, I admit.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:49 am

Cool YOU don't express yourself very clearly?? Its me, babe, alllll on me! Embarassed
I must apologize Dot, I was feeling a little testy last night while typing. (Son's dog has been brought to the Vets early this AM).
Moral being, when my 24yr old "partying" "screw up everything" son made the statement to us last night, after his really cool fuzzy companion of almost 2yrs threw up blood. "He's not just a dog, he's more than that." If a living on the edge son whose marriage went to hell in a hand basket, jobless now, moved in to take care of Maw Maw, (& he does!) while I'm away in the military....can make such a heart felt statement about a dog, he is more caring than the many people out there can make about their OWN kids. Little bit of aggression placed not to you, my friend, but on society & ignorance itself.
My youngest son (19yrs old) is a Godfather to his best friends child. Erika is 2yrs old, & he & his buddy know how to take better care of her than the childs mother. The mothers parents could care less about their daughter or granddaughter. BTW mothers parents are upper middle class. Flashbacks of what TMarie was talking about, I guess?? Horrific indeed.
However teens & young adults continue to amaze me when it comes to really caring & giving care toward children or animals. Again Dot, maybe it is the responsibilty within the raising. Cool
$$$ thrown at any program to me is just a bandaid also. Since when does $$ solve everything? Its crazy but even $$ has a value put on it, by society as well as the owner. Again no self realization, or respect...no value of said person. So how can those type of people put a value on ownership of anything let alone $$?
I've just re read....did the above make any sense at all? Crying or Very sad
Very interesting discussion here.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:17 am

But then, as a former high school teacher, I have very mixed thoughts about the idea that everyone ought to be able to go to college. We've turned college into higher-level high school essentially.

I worked with plenty of students who were good kids but no mental giants. They'd have done fine in some kind of technical work such as nurse's aide or construction.

But no...we've got the idea that everyone needs to go to college anymore.

Part of the reason, I think, is that we've gotten to be a society of stuff-grabbers. Everyone HAS to have all kinds of junk, whether it's something anyone actually needs or not.

We lived in a new area on the edge of town when I was a kid, and I swear we had more fun playing with things we dragged out of home builders' scrap piles than we did with any of our actual toys. We used to take a pencil or crayons and draw on pieces of drywall to make things to sell in our play stores or "fancy china" for tables we made out of plywood scraps and broken cement blocks.

Anyone who's ever watched a baby playing happily with cups, bowls and some water or banging with a wooden spoon on a pan knows that kids can have a lot more fun with simple objects and imagination than with any fancy toys.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by AutumnalTone on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:29 pm

Seems to me a major issue hasn't been touched on--jobs available that pay decently. If you want fewer people on welfare, have jobs available for them (instead of shipping jobs out of the country). Require that all jobs pay a living wage (and avoid the swelling of welfare rolls because companies refuse to pay enough to keep employees off welfare [WalMart alone costs states millions each year]).

Anybody working any position is participating in this shared economy, so everybody working should be able to afford decent housing, food, transportation, and insurance. Everybody, whether pushing a mop or flipping burgers or digging ditches.

Provide those positions and you'll see a tremendous drop in welfare outlays.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:36 pm

An excellent point, Crow.

Not only are there not enough decent-paying jobs, but a great many of the jobs traditionally held by women don't pay enough to live on because they're traditionally women's jobs.

It's criminal how little childcare and nursing home workers make considering how important both jobs are.

The latter will certainly become more needed jobs as we baby boomers begin needing nursing home care.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by MaineCaptain on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:13 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:An excellent point, Crow.



It's criminal how little childcare and nursing home workers make considering how important both jobs are.
Very true, I was a Nanny for a while, I am one of those odd people that like babies,

But unless you are live in, and work for some one with money, being a child care worker pays nothing.
Children can't vote thus have no power.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:07 pm

Well, the only problem with raising wages is it makes that can of beans that was 5 cents become 15 cents then 80 cents then two dollars and 89 cents. Raising wages will never solve a thing, because it's relative to inflation for the cost of living. My grandfather used to make $2 an hour and that was decent money. Up the wages and you'll just up the rent and cost of everything ya buy so the law of economics wins.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by gillyflower on Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:58 pm

You might be interested in this TED. The average hourly wage for hotel workers in 1932 (during the depression) was 25 cents an hour. On the other hand, a can of pork and beans cost 5 cents.

http://www.nber.org/chapters/c2256.pdf

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:28 pm

Work an hour, get 5 cans of beans. Works for me! That is interesting.

Now we get $8 an hour in a busy area (like here), min wage in the poorer areas. For my $8 I can still buy five $1.60 cans of beans. In a minimum wage locale I guess I'd have to go generic and pass up my favorite, the Bush's Baked Beans.

I always hear people bitching about low wages, and on the surface, why yes, it would be lovely to make more money. Naturally, some people will always make more than others and live better than others in a capitalist society. When people don't look beyond their noses, they forget the common sense factor that if everyone is making at least X amount of income, that's simply going to drive inflation. As a store owner, am I going to sell cans for 5 cents a can when the minimum wage is $6 an hour? Oh hell no! Am I going to rent a hotel room for $20 a night? Hell no! Did we? Well yeah, back when people made less. My friend remembers our rent being $40 a month in a three-bedroom house. Compare that to $800 a month now! Who won? Not a damn soul. Go ahead, raise the minimum wage, and let's go ahead and pay $850 a month instead of $800. The economy is set around that.

The people who really get screwed when wages are raised are the ones in my boat, who make a little more than minimum wage. Our earnings don't go up, but inflation around us does. It's TEDs Law of Economics; The economy will always balance itself out based on the supply and demand ratio. Okay, so it's not really TED's law, it's just common sense, but it's highly overlooked when people don't look more than 6" ahead into the future.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:27 pm

I'm not arguing about the effects upon the economy of increasing wages for what currently are low-paying jobs.

I'm simply complaining yet again that our social priorities aren't where they should be.

Actors and professional athletes make zillions while childcare workers can't afford a decent place to live (unless providing childcare is a second income for a family, for instance.)

There's something veeeery wrong morally speaking with those priorities.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:47 pm

Oh, I agree. The unequal distribution of wealth is not something I stomach well, especially when it comes to those in the enterainment biz.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:16 pm

So where did those social priorities go to? Thats what I'd like to know?
The American Worker is losing more & more rights. The American worker is the one getting screwed. Now if you work 30hrs a week, thats FULL time employment. If your blessed to work any overtime at all in other work areas, well they screw the American Worker again & start handing out 'COMP time." WTF Over? These "Will to work" states, & companies that hire & fire for any reason wear me out! Acts of discrimination go by the way side on that one. I don't care about others but the long ago days of Unions backing the "little man" over the "corporate fat cats", have to have a throw down one day soon. If Americans give up more rights, whose going to be working & moving the big machines wheels? Not us, then we'll become a 3d world country overnight & the rest of world will become the ones we follow. Help
(Is that going on now? Or, am I dreaming?) Tantrum
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by MaineCaptain on Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:56 pm

I know this is naive, but I always thought being a citizen of a country gave you special rights of the country. Like being about to search and actually find a job.
I do think it is the country as a whole, The governments responsibility to make sure jobs and the like are not being exported to foreign lands.

What's the point of being part of a country or even having one, if it does not protect you? Protection involves more then warring armies. It is making sure jobs stay in the country, by making sure the pot is sweeter here. Not giving in, but to some extent making profits harder to obtain if jobs and factories are placed in other countries.

THe USA has been terrified of China for decades. China has never played by the import export rules and when they break the rules the USA not only lets them, but changes the rules in their favour.

US citizens should come first in the USA, as all citizens should in their own respective countries when it comes to how money (our tax dollars) is spent.

The USA used to be solvent, we did not have the debt we have now and did not pay the taxes we pay now. A lot of that is because we used to have import taxes, Tariffs etc..that paid for things.

And yes if jobs were plentiful and wages were fair, we could afford to pay a higher price for jeans, and shoes, other things, knowing our fellow citizens were all doing at least as well.

Big business now runs the country and only those at the tippy top are getting any money, and they wield the power over us, and pay off the politicians.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:04 pm

My sister has been president of her union for several years and says we can largely thank the Bush administration for doing just about everything possible to render unions unable to do much to protect their workers anymore.

I know that had my husband's on-the-job fall occurred in New York State, a state with traditionally strong unions, he'd have gotten a few million as a settlement. Kansas caps Worker's Comp settlements at $250,000 which shows you what a disadvantage it can be to get hurt in a "right to work for less" state.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by MaineCaptain on Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:12 pm

Yes that is one of the thing I am talking about. I am actually surprised the 'Bushs" still live in the USA. I feel like they came in raped us of our funding and reputation and then left.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:52 pm

You do know that there was talk of TX wanting to succeed last yr? (Maybe they THINK they live in another country?)
Here in LA, if your big business, you can move on down here & your company doesn't have to pay taxes to the state! (Why is this state poor again?) Lets see some Company names are Citgo (Venezuela), Conoco Phillips, Exxon Mobile, Boeing, Grumman, should I continue? Pay the employees according to the local economy (hello we're below the average wage). Hire & fire "at will". Offer health insurance for 3/4's of your take home pay! (Why is this state poor again?) Get ahead? Keep up w the rest of America? Hell people here can't even break even.
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by MaineCaptain on Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:52 pm

Yes Willow that is what I am talking about. GRRRRR

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:47 pm

If you tax your own companies & foreign companies they will leave for non taxation, non regulation of pollutants, cheaper help, cheaper product, mismanagement of $$$. Seems like a lose lose situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't! I was like you, Maine, just a short time ago! Shocked The more I listen to world news on PBS McNeil News Hour, & BBC news, you get a glimpse of the bigger picture world wide, & us (US) along w other countries trying to ban together to stop pollutants, stop the misuse of peoples & economies, find a "GREENER" solution for all, & start helping each other(maybe world wide humankind IS figuring out that we only have 1 EARTH, & we ALL live on it! ...its ALL starting sort of to make sense. (Well atleast to me it does).... Clap
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by MaineCaptain on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:02 pm

I know there are ways to do this kind of thing to create a balance between over taxation and the public good, but no one in power has any interest, and those with good ideas, want no part of public office, probably because with the exception of their good ideas, they would not do well in the office in general.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:05 pm

Very Happy Side note:

John was reading last night "Fingerprints of the Gods" & started thinking (dangerous I know Rolling Eyes ) that all this hupla about 2012 & all these end dates & end times scare tactics: The Age of Aquaries will soon be upon us. Right now the world leaders talking, & having growing pains w some issues & ideas. (ie: Russia, China & US pressuring N. Korea to "straighten up & fly right"). People really digging into theology & science, literally. (How far back does Mankind really go?) Religious fanatics everywhere using "fear" as their last resort. (Not only a sect of Muslims, right here in the America's also). Global acknowledgement of we all ARE living on this Mother Earth. (Awareness of global warming).
I don't know, sounds sort of kooky, but: If you remember the song.

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius!
Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius!
Aquarius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius!
Aquarius!


I'm looking forward, I'm ready to start fresh & anew!
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:11 pm

Because secession worked so well the last time.


/sarcasm

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Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:14 pm

Willow, I don't know but I think it's all going to come to a head.

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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:34 pm

Very Happy Yes, & I plan to be around & celebrating the loudest! Mankind cannot be this dumb, NOT to know that what they run around preaching about CAN be done. "Love thy neighbor as yourself."
"Harm None."
"Walk a mile in your brothers moccassins".
"Do unto others as you would have them do onto you."

My gosh the possibilities are endless! Smile


I have a favorite saying TED:

There is Charity, Love & Hope:
Charity is precious & should be shared.
Love is the greatest gift of all,
Hope? You cry?
Oh yes, yes dear, Hope.
For without Hope,
Mankind will surely die.


SG, I think Mexico gave us their "problem children."
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Re: Ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Vent...

Post by Beautiful_Dreamer on Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:41 pm

Some of us want to work, but can't. Some of us did the school thing, happily. Some of us worked about half our lives-paying into the system-until we got hurt/sick/both to the point where we simply can't hold down a job anymore. Some of us know nothing else *but* work, and would love to be able to go back to that world. Some of us get government help because we can't manage any other way and intend on getting it for only as long as absolutely necessary. Some of us try to keep up our skills in the hopes that we will work full-time again and will work toward that end, but for now have to make the best of circumstances beyond our control.
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