Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

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Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Sakhaiva on Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:42 pm

I found this posted on Jon's blog http://xristocharis.wordpress.com/ and it was very amazing.

In one short video, the teachings of Christ clashes so vividly with the blatant Blasphemy of Bush:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8xufsr2log&feature=player_embedded


thoughts?
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:04 pm

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/badreligion/americanjesus.html
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Davelaw on Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:07 pm

the teaching of Jesus was for individuals in their personal life; do you have any evidence that "W" didn't follow the teachings of Jesus on an individual basis in his personal life?

These teachings have never been taught to apply to a head of State-His Kingdom is not of this world
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:37 pm

I would think that someone who had applied the teachings in his private life, would also apply them in his public life.

but I have been wrong before.....

all
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Sakhaiva on Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:53 pm

he's the preacher on t.v.
the false sincerity
the form letter that's written
by the big computers
he's the nuclear bombs
and the kids with no moms
and i'm fearful that
he's inside me


I'd say the arrow went from the quiver to the bulls-eye with those lyrics. Lord, forgive me for the pain I have done, and for the good I have left undone. (Forgive men for the times I don't want to admit any of it)


Daveslaw: my beef with Bush is that he did not give good witness before God, Christendom or the world. IOW, his actions were not honorable - now I know he is far from being the first politician to play the church for prostitute, nor will he be the last; however, because of his anctics, many people now have such a tainted view of Christianity that they cannot see any good in it at all. In fact many have all but forgotten folks like Bonhoeffer, Barth or Corrie ten Boom! (people who ought to greatly stand out.)

......

I do believe that history will show Bush, and people like him, to be responsible for the fall of the American Evangelical movement. (The pendulum always swings the other direction, in this case I think it had some help)

You said that Christian teachings have never been taught to apply to a head of State as His Kingdom is not of this world ... I agree. However, I wish he would not have played the faith card quite so loudly.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by tmarie64 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:02 pm

Dave, a man who laughs with glee at a person on death row is NOT a person who lives as Christ would have it.
More examples of his VERY NON-Christian behavior...
Mocking a 13 year old kid...
Jessica Hackerd, a "13-year old blonde-headed girl," asked Bush what his "next step with the immigration bill" will be. "Mr. Bush's sarcastic reply - a wry 'yeah, thanks' - drew laughter from the crowd of 400. But the attention caused young Jessica...to immediately tear up. 'No, it's a great question. No, I appreciate that,' Mr. Bush said, as he saw Jessica's reaction.'
In May 2006, President Bush made a bizarre remark which charmed disability advocates everywhere. Pitching his troubled Medicare prescription plan in Florida, President Bush said to a man in a wheelchair, "You look mighty comfortable." Six weeks later, Bush chided Los Angeles Times reporter Peter Wallsten, who is afflicted with Stargardt's disease and legally blind, for wearing sunglasses during the President's press conference:
THE PRESIDENT: Are you going to ask that question with shades on?

WALLSTEN: I can take them off.

THE PRESIDENT: I'm interested in the shade look, seriously.

WALLSTEN: All right, I'll keep it, then.

THE PRESIDENT: For the viewers, there's no sun.

WALLSTEN: I guess it depends on your perspective.
In 1999, Governor Bush laughed off his looming execution of Karla Faye Tucker, mimicking with condemned death row inmate with his trademark smirk, "Please don't kill me!"
I never claimed to be a great christian... but I do know that this AIN'T the way we are supposed to live.

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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Davelaw on Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:22 pm

Tucker asked him what he thot CFT's last words would be

he responded - "Please, Don't kill me"

I'll fight you on me of the others but there is two sides to the KFT story; some believe she became a born-again Christian and sincerely changed; others including "W" and his legal adviser Johnny Sutton believed she had a "jail-house conversion" as an attempt to escape the Death Penalty.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:34 am

He LAUGHED AT HER!!!! THAT is all i care about. HE LAUGHED at someone who was going to die.
What kind of scumbag does that? You can't "fight" me on that, because Jesus Christ would NEVER condone laughing at someone going to their death. EVER.

Nowhere did I say anything for KFT should have been changed... I said He was NOT christian in his laughing at her.

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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:14 am

tmarie64 wrote:
In May 2006, President Bush made a bizarre remark which charmed disability advocates everywhere. Pitching his troubled Medicare prescription plan in Florida, President Bush said to a man in a wheelchair, "You look mighty comfortable." Six weeks later, Bush chided Los Angeles Times reporter Peter Wallsten, who is afflicted with Stargardt's disease and legally blind, for wearing sunglasses during the President's press conference:
THE PRESIDENT: Are you going to ask that question with shades on?

WALLSTEN: I can take them off.

THE PRESIDENT: I'm interested in the shade look, seriously.

WALLSTEN: All right, I'll keep it, then.

THE PRESIDENT: For the viewers, there's no sun.

WALLSTEN: I guess it depends on your perspective.
I never claimed to be a great christian... but I do know that this AIN'T the way we are supposed to live.

Yanno, difficult though it can be to believe this, I'm not so sure that Bush's intent was to be mean or discriminatory in these instances.

I can see where the remark to the man in the wheelchair was simply an instance of Southern-style putting the best face on unfortunate circumstances. Thus, Bush could have been remarking that despite the man's need of a wheelchair, it looked like it was well-cushioned and would be comfortable. My husband's powerchair IS so cushiony that it's more comfortable than a good many armchairs I've sat in, particularly those in my dentist's waiting room.

Such a comment is actually regarded as good manners in some regions in that you're not denying the person's condition as so many "PC" types do but rather are acknowledging it and attempting to identify something good about a bad situation.

The remarks to Wallsten could have been Bush's way of trying to suggest jokingly that wearing sunglasses during a Presidential press conference was ill-mannered. Are we certain that Bush KNEW of the reporter's illness and need for dark glasses?
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:43 am

tmarie64 wrote:He LAUGHED AT HER!!!! THAT is all i care about. HE LAUGHED at someone who was going to die.
What kind of scumbag does that?

Lots of people, particularly if they're reasonably certain that someone sentenced to death has "found Jesus" within the context of trying to get out of being executed for horrific crimes.

"Un-Christian" though it is to think so, there are some people so evil and damaged that keeping them alive is simply a waste of resources when we consider the threat to society of their "doing a [Ted] Bundy" and escaping from jail to resume their criminal behavior.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:55 am

Where did I say anything about keeping her alive??? I SAID it was wrong to laugh at her. Only a person as evil as satan himself would LAUGH at someone going to their death.

My father, born and raised in the south by a proud southern man and woman, would have kicked my ass if I'd made that kind of comment to a person in a wheelchair. I've lived in the south for all but 3 of my 45 years of life and never have I ever heard anything like that being deemed appropriate.

It is not Christian to laugh at someone going to their death.
No justification for his making a 13 year old kid cry?

It is not Christian to make fun of the infirmities of others, make someone cry, laugh at those who are going to their death....

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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:11 am

tmarie64 wrote:Where did I say anything about keeping her alive??? I SAID it was wrong to laugh at her. Only a person as evil as satan himself would LAUGH at someone going to their death.

My comment about keeping someone alive in that situation was an add-on to explain that there are people so devious and sociopathic that they'll do anything to avoid punishment.

Guess we disagree but I don't see calling a spade a spade "laughing" at someone about to be quite deservedly executed (assuming that Bush correctly identified her motive.)

My father, born and raised in the south by a proud southern man and woman, would have kicked my ass if I'd made that kind of comment to a person in a wheelchair. I've lived in the south for all but 3 of my 45 years of life and never have I ever heard anything like that being deemed appropriate.

Okay, well, saying something like that is thought of as Texas-style manners in Kansas where I grew up...and to Kansans that's "Southern." Probably more accurately identified as a remnant of Wild West or "cowboy" manners.

All I can say is that the slant of the story you quoted appears to be one of trying to make something mean out of comments that were graceless but weren't necessarily intended to be mean. The comment to the man in the wheelchair was characterized as a "bizarre remark which charmed [note the sarcasm here] disability advocates everywhere" [emphasis added] and I think it quite possible Bush's intent was more nearly as I've characterized it.

No justification for his making a 13 year old kid cry?

No, Tina, I didn't offer one since I think it was clear that Bush realized he'd said something inappropriate in that instance and attempted (somewhat ineffectually) to make up for having done so, assuming that these incidents all were reported accurately.

It is not Christian to make fun of the infirmities of others, make someone cry, laugh at those who are going to their death....

But it IS Christian to judge and condemn Bush as harshly as you are doing here?
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Sakhaiva on Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:32 pm

It is not Christian to make fun of the infirmities of others, make someone cry, laugh at those who are going to their death....

But it IS Christian to judge and condemn Bush as harshly as you are doing here?[/quote]

I think the difference between the two is that Tina came to the table admitting her struggles:

tmarie64 wrote:I never claimed to be a great christian...
(re: laughing at someone who is about to die) There is something to be said for humility.

DOT, you brought up a good point in that one of the main teachings of Christianity is opting for love over judgment. I struggled with that in starting this thread (especially since I'm trying very hard to work that sort of negativity out of my thinking) And I admit that Bush is too easy a target; but one might agree with me that he represents a kind of lightening rod of the fundamentalist sect. My biggest concern, and the reason for starting this thread, is that many people seem to identify Bush (and his kind) with Christianity.

But he does not represent all Christianity any more than the *Bible Belt* does.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:53 pm

Sakhaiva wrote:I found this posted on Jon's blog http://xristocharis.wordpress.com/ and it was very amazing.

In one short video, the teachings of Christ clashes so vividly with the blatant Blasphemy of Bush:
< snip >
thoughts?

Yeah, I hadn't watched the entire video until just now, and I think it's a grossly slapdash indictment of Bush in its claims that he's not a good Christian because of some carefully snipped statements contrasted with the highly idealistic (and often unrealistic) statements of a movie-Jesus (a thoroughly white-skinned Jesus to boot.) It's primarily amazing to me that people have the gall to be so "holier than thou" as to produce such a video.

How often is "Turn the other cheek" a realistic response? Do we truly think that "Forgive them for they know not what they do" is a reasonable response to the destruction of the World Trade Center?

Of course not.

I think Bush was the puppet of Cheney and others and certainly wasn't presidential material. His inept behavior on so many occasions demonstrates the latter quite clearly.

But it's neither just nor fair to edit out of context statements he made as President as "evidence" that he's not a sincere Christian. We all know that being President involves a fairly large amount of "telling 'em what I know they expect to hear."
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:10 pm

It just occurred to me that Bush's appearing to mock Tucker with the sentence, "Please, don't kill me!" could easily have meant how dare she beg for clemency when her victims likely said those words and more to her to no avail.

Unless we are certain of the context and reasonably sure of the person's intent, it's always risky to assume from nothing more than a news story or commentary citing one (especially from the latter) that we know what the intended meaning was and thus can judge the person fairly.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:59 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:It just occurred to me that Bush's appearing to mock Tucker with the sentence, "Please, don't kill me!" could easily have meant how dare she beg for clemency when her victims likely said those words and more to her to no avail.

Unless we are certain of the context and reasonably sure of the person's intent, it's always risky to assume from nothing more than a news story or commentary citing one (especially from the latter) that we know what the intended meaning was and thus can judge the person fairly.

my post just got eaten
at least one of her victims did beg for their life-that not to say that any of "W's" actions were appropriate-just that they were not from "Satan himself"-he has always suffered from foot in mouth disease as did his Patrician father-"born with a silver foot in his mouth".
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:20 pm

Good point, Dave. Agreed.

Whether we agree or disagree with Obama's politics and how he's doing the job thus far, at least the guy has an appropriately presidential demeanor which is largely why he's so highly regarded worldwide, I think.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:29 pm

He whimpered it and pursed his lips. He was whining.

He's an ass. Always has been, always will be. A very stupid one at that, and no one can argue THAT... at least no one who ever heard him bumble his way through a speech.

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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:10 pm

Then I'm an ass as well, because I don't think someone who was high on drugs when she and her boyfriend chopped up two innocent people, one of whom was the husband of her best friend, deserves to have her impending death by execution respected very much.

Maybe her reformation was sincere. God knows. We don't.

I think Bush's regrettable behavior often had a lot less to do with his religion and a whole lot more with his having grown up a pampered rich kid with more money than tact.

(Gawds! I can't believe I've spent this much time and effort defending "Shrub.")
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:18 pm

I think you were defending a principle.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by DotNotInOz on Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:20 am

Thanks for saying so, Dave.

Even though I lapse at times as do we all, I believe in fairness and justice.
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Re: Christianity V. Christianness - YouTube link

Post by Sakhaiva on Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:16 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:Thanks for saying so, Dave.

Even though I lapse at times as do we all, I believe in fairness and justice.

Fairness is a trait we can all use more of DOT; excellent posting!
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