The Origin of Stupidity

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The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:49 am

Cool video commenting on Kirk Cameron's and Ray 'The Banana Man' Comfort's attempt of distributing their version of the 'Origin of species'.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:02 am

Celsus wrote:Cool video commenting on Kirk Cameron's and Ray 'The Banana Man' Comfort's attempt of distributing their version of the 'Origin of species'.

Is English her second language? She has a slightly odd turn of phrase in there.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:03 am

sacrificialgoddess wrote:
Celsus wrote:Cool video commenting on Kirk Cameron's and Ray 'The Banana Man' Comfort's attempt of distributing their version of the 'Origin of species'.

Is English her second language? She has a slightly odd turn of phrase in there.

Yes. She's not a native speaker.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:40 am

She's a little bit out of the Loop as well; a famous well known unbeliever wrote an introduction to the Bible a long time ago-it was a best seller.
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:41 am

Davelaw wrote:She's a little bit out of the Loop as well; a famous well known unbeliever wrote an introduction to the Bible a long time ago-it was a best seller.

True, and there's also the excellent The Skeptic's Annotated Bible. But that doesn't invalidate her critique and rebuke of the Banana Man's project.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:55 am

what does invalidate her stuff as well as anyone on both side who use the same technique-is her use of emotionally laden values-i might give her Banana Man-but Cameron is his Bitch?

no one from the right or the left; faith or skepticism will convince me of any thing if they use one emotional label, one value charged adjective in their work-for me the second they step outside of objectivity-they lose-she has a valid point-what Cameron was arguing in his intro-Is The Christian POV used to be the exclusive and dominant POV in the USA-it no longer is

of course, I would prefer to have my religion out lawed altogether-historically my faith flourishes when suppressed

but thats not a popular view among my co-religionists-we teach tolerance but then decry the loss of our cultural dominance
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:56 am

Davelaw wrote:what does invalidate her stuff as well as anyone on both sides who use the same technique-is her use of emotionally laden values-i might give her Banana Man-but Cameron is his Bitch?

no one from the right or the left; faith or skepticism will convince me of any thing if they use one emotional label, one value charged adjective in their work-for me the second they step outside of objectivity-they lose-she has a valid point-what Cameron was arguing in his intro-Is The Christian POV used to be the exclusive and dominant POV in the USA-it no longer is

of course, I would prefer to have my religion out lawed altogether-historically my faith flourishes when suppressed

but thats not a popular view among my co-religionists-we teach tolerance but then decry the loss of our cultural dominance
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:58 am

Davelaw wrote:what does invalidate her stuff as well as anyone on both side who use the same technique-is her use of emotionally laden values-i might give her Banana Man-but Cameron is his Bitch?

no one from the right or the left; faith or skepticism will convince me of any thing if they use one emotional label, one value charged adjective in their work-for me the second they step outside of objectivity-they lose-she has a valid point-what Cameron was arguing in his intro-Is The Christian POV used to be the exclusive and dominant POV in the USA-it no longer is

of course, I would prefer to have my religion out lawed altogether-historically my faith flourishes when suppressed

but thats not a popular view among my co-religionists-we teach tolerance but then decry the loss of our cultural dominance

Well, she's not a native speaker ... so maybe she didn't realize the level of offensiveness of 'bitch'.

I would have said that Cameron is the Banana Man's poodle Laughing

And I think it's ok to get a bit emotional when people lie so outright like Kirk does. (or are so ignorant)

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:11 am

nope, you use one word of it for either side-and you lose me

if you want to persuade-structure your argument-a good argument needs no help
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:13 am

Davelaw wrote:nope, you use one word of it for either side-and you lose me

if you want to persuade-structure your argument-a good argument needs no help

Agreed. But humans are not Vulcans, are they? Wink

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:25 am

Are you aware of the clean hands doctrine in American Law? This is similar-if one is arguing for uber rationality-the argument better be value free.
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:26 am

Davelaw wrote:Are you aware of the clean hands doctrine in American Law? This is similar-if one is arguing for uber rationality-the argument better be value free.

As long as the emotions doesn't distort the argument, there's nothing wrong with emotion. Even though less emotion would be better.

And no, I don't know that doctrine.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:36 am

if one is arguing against something-you can not engage in same or similar behavior-if one expects to benefit from the outcome

and ultimately-what is she worried about? that a college student will read a 50 page introduction? Comfort is not going to address post-Darwinian evolution-its all just freedom of the press
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:10 am

Davelaw wrote:
if you want to persuade-structure your argument-a good argument needs no help

I agree. Let's put both arguments up against each other, and see which one is more plausible.


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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:09 pm

How would phrase them?
A) the secular degeneration of our society is in part caused by a reliance on concepts from the Origin of Species.

B) Why are you calling Progress-degeneration?

you really can't have a discussion-when they are speaking to two very different audiences
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:12 pm

Um, I don't know how you would phrase that side of the argument Dave.

I think the argument itself is pretty stupid.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:15 pm

or we could take one point

like If the Logic of Origin of Species is to followed through to its conclusion then societal evolution is just as important as biological evolution and Spencerism aka Social Darwinism was a key factor in the atrocities of WII

not uh
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:18 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Um, I don't know how you would phrase that side of the argument Dave.

I think the argument itself is pretty stupid.

all

the argument is based in a call to a return to an ideal past that never really was

all our founders were deeply versed in the scriptures of their day; which knowledge didn't prevent them from becoming Deists (God creates and then walks away)
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:23 pm

Davelaw wrote:if one is arguing against something-you can not engage in same or similar behavior-if one expects to benefit from the outcome

and ultimately-what is she worried about? that a college student will read a 50 page introduction? Comfort is not going to address post-Darwinian evolution-its all just freedom of the press

Would you be ok with people distributing annotated Bibles to students or in front of churches?

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:23 pm

Davelaw wrote:
the argument is based in a call to a return to an ideal past that never really was

Many of the arguments that exist today are as such.

Davelaw wrote:
all our founders were deeply versed in the scriptures of their day; which knowledge didn't prevent them from becoming Deists (God creates and then walks away)

I like to think that I am reasonably versed in Christian scripture as well. So is Celsus here. He's probably got me beat actually.

I think that such a thing speaks to the differences of knowledge. One can be knowledgeable about something without believing it as factual.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:25 pm

Celsus wrote:
Would you be ok with people distributing annotated Bibles to students or in front of churches?

I think we have a bit of a underestimation of the ease of which our college students are led.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:27 pm

Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:if one is arguing against something-you can not engage in same or similar behavior-if one expects to benefit from the outcome

and ultimately-what is she worried about? that a college student will read a 50 page introduction? Comfort is not going to address post-Darwinian evolution-its all just freedom of the press

Would you be ok with people distributing annotated Bibles to students or in front of churches?

why wouldn't I be?-its a free country that is a right in America


Last edited by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:31 pm

the problem of course is that Darwin isn't even what the opposition needs to be addressing

the argument has moved on; if you want to discuss Evolution, give a moment to Darwin in the introduction-but spend your time with Stephen Jay Gould
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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:36 pm

The problem I see is that evolution isn't even what they are addressing! Regardless of what face you put on it.

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Re: The Origin of Stupidity

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:42 pm

Davelaw wrote:
Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:if one is arguing against something-you can not engage in same or similar behavior-if one expects to benefit from the outcome

and ultimately-what is she worried about? that a college student will read a 50 page introduction? Comfort is not going to address post-Darwinian evolution-its all just freedom of the press

Would you be ok with people distributing annotated Bibles to students or in front of churches?

why wouldn't I be?-its a free country that is a right in America

You would be ok with this even if what the Bible was annotated with would be wrong or severe distortions?

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