Further evidence there is no loving God ...

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Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:02 pm

A 12-year-old Yemeni girl, who was forced into marriage, has died during a difficult delivery in which her baby also died, a children's rights organisation said on Sunday, demanding action to stop Yemeni men taking child brides.

(source)

Why wouldn't have an all-knowing, all-good, loving God have prevented her from becoming pregnant? That wouldn't have had any implications for free will etc ...

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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Davelaw on Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:51 pm

sure it has free-will implications

cause and effect
sewing and reaping
responsibility for ones actions

big deal at best you have proven that God no longer intervenes in History
maybe since the death and resurrection of His son-He no longer needs to- as an innocent she is now in a better place
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:22 am

Davelaw wrote:sure it has free-will implications

cause and effect
sewing and reaping
responsibility for ones actions

big deal at best you have proven that God no longer intervenes in History
maybe since the death and resurrection of His son-He no longer needs to- as an innocent she is now in a better place

and in order to teach the guy a lesson the girl had to suffer and die? wow, your God is such a great teacher! and why should one call such a sadist 'loving'?

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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:34 am

No, God no longer interacts in History
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:40 am

Davelaw wrote:No, God no longer interacts in History

How does that make him deserve the label 'loving' or 'caring'?

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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:46 am

God follows rules; he can care even if He can no longer act because He has been self-limited
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:52 am

Davelaw wrote:God follows rules; he can care even if He can no longer act because He has been self-limited

1. What is the evidence that he cares?
2. Why should self-limitation be seen as 'loving' or 'caring' when the consequence is a lot of unnecessary suffering of innocent people?

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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:03 am

1) that He said He does
2) that He has empathy because He became a man
3) the self limitation was a consequence of becoming a man
4) how do we know its unnecessary? - it may be necessary for their own spiritual evolution-you focus on the now because you don't see evidence of anything else
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:34 am

Davelaw wrote:1) that He said He does
2) that He has empathy because He became a man
3) the self limitation was a consequence of becoming a man
4) how do we know its unnecessary? - it may be necessary for their own spiritual evolution-you focus on the now because you don't see evidence of anything else

1. Where does he say that he cares RIGHT NOW?
2. Where does it say that the self-limitation was a consequence and assuming self-limitation is true, does that mean that God is not omnipotent anymore?
3. So you believe it's necessary for this little girl's spiritual evolution to have been raped and impregnated, and to die painfully over three days during childbirth?

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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:33 pm

Davelaw wrote:sure it has free-will implications

cause and effect
sewing and reaping
responsibility for ones actions

I don't understand how your examples are relevant to the cited situation. Please explain.
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Davelaw on Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:37 pm

free will includes non interference - the examples are of reasons for non interference -nonspecific to the situation at hand
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:20 am

Davelaw wrote:free will includes non interference - the examples are of reasons for non interference -nonspecific to the situation at hand

How about answering these questions?

1. Where does he say that he cares RIGHT NOW?
2. Where does it say that the self-limitation was a consequence and assuming self-limitation is true, does that mean that God is not omnipotent anymore?
3. So you believe it's necessary for this little girl's spiritual evolution to have been raped and impregnated, and to die painfully over three days during childbirth?

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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Davelaw on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:27 am

1) just because one doesn't act doesn't means one doesn't care-President Clinton-I feel your pain
2.never was triple omni
3) I don't know-I said what if? do you understand the concept of speculation?
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:34 am

Davelaw wrote:1) just because one doesn't act doesn't means one doesn't care-President Clinton-I feel your pain
2.never was triple omni
3) I don't know-I said what if? do you understand the concept of speculation?

1. So you've got no actual evidence that he DOES care?
2. Your God is not triple-omni? Which omni is missing then?
3. So you believe it COULD have been necessary for this little girl's spiritual evolution to have gotten raped and impregnated? (and then painfully die during childbirth)

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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Davelaw on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:55 am

1) His written Word
2) all powerful: self-limitation by definition i.e. God cannot lie, God cannot sin etc...
3) nonspecific
suffering and death could lead to your spirit becoming a powerful spiritual being

why are you using anecdotal evidence if you are conducting a serious scientific inquiry?
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Re: Further evidence there is no loving God ...

Post by Daldianus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:59 am

Davelaw wrote:1) His written Word
2) all powerful: self-limitation by definition i.e. God cannot lie, God cannot sin etc...
3) nonspecific
suffering and death could lead to your spirit becoming a powerful spiritual being

why are you using anecdotal evidence if you are conducting a serious scientific inquiry?

1a. Where does his alleged written word say that he cares right now?
1b. What is the evidence that this alleged written word actually corresponds to the truth?
2. So he decided to put these limitations on himself and he can't undo them ever?
3. Are you basing this on real evidence or is that simply an assumption? and does this mean that what happened to that little girl was actually a good thing?

The evidence isn't that anecdotal. The example goes right to the core of the problem.

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