No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:40 pm

I'm immune. I'm asexual.

Wink
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:41 pm


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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by John T Mainer on Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:05 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Oh you know, we were taught they were demon-possessed, would sacrifice your pets (or kids), even talking to them could seduce you into their evil ways (if you weren't strong enough). Witches were sometimes powerful workers of evil.

I may have racked up a fair number of seductions before I got married, but I don't seem to recall religion coming into it. Unless you mean all those cries of "Oh God! Oh God!" were prayers for spiritual assistance and not just endorsements for my efforts of the moment. I certainly never excluded anyone based on religion. Marital status certainly, but I never excluded based on faith. If I converted anybody by accident, sorry. My bad.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:26 pm

MaineCaptain wrote:In Catholic school they taught us Pagans all went to hell, but never said we had to fear them particularly.

At that time I was about 9 or 10. It really seemed bad to be a Pagan, then I grew up and found out..........I was one

Yeah, well, you were a post-Vatican II Catholic kid, MC. Things were a whole lot more liberal by then.

Back in ye good olde days of Catholicism (First Communion in 1956 here), we were told that it wasn't advisable to associate with non-Catholics if you could possibly help it. Cousins of mine who went to Catholic schools said they were told to make friends only with kids in the school or in church; they didn't need non-Catholic friends.

I wouldn't have had many friends in that case as only around a dozen kids in my public school class were Catholic. My mom was a convert, and she said that was ridiculous, a person needed to learn to get along with all sorts of people no matter what their religion.
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:54 pm

After I turned away from Christianity many of my former ( but no longer ) Christian friends have told me that I'm doomed to hell. But there are other Christian friends who don't feel that way about me. Some of them are even Ministers.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by gillyflower on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:16 pm

See? If you don't like one person's opinion, just ask another. Smile

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:23 pm

Just like doctors. Laughing

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by MaineCaptain on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:02 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:

Yeah, well, you were a post-Vatican II Catholic kid, MC. Things were a whole lot more liberal by then.

Back in ye good olde days of Catholicism (First Communion in 1956 here), we were told that it wasn't advisable to associate with non-Catholics if you could possibly help it. Cousins of mine who went to Catholic schools said they were told to make friends only with kids in the school or in church; they didn't need non-Catholic friends.

I wouldn't have had many friends in that case as only around a dozen kids in my public school class were Catholic. My mom was a convert, and she said that was ridiculous, a person needed to learn to get along with all sorts of people no matter what their religion.
My Mother did mention how you had to get special permissions from your Priest to go to the wedding or other event where there would be a service, if they were not Catholic, but as you say it was before Vatican 2.
And my Mother was before Vatican 2 as well, but she was such a sweet person, that she never paid attention to those rules. And at one time she was a devoted church goer.She always had friends of all different faiths, though. My grandmother made my Grandfather convert to Catholicism, and even talked my mother's sister's husband into converting.

I as a child was a bit of a rebel, tell me I can't do something and I made my mind up to do it, you would never know it now, but I was. Razz

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:50 pm

This is just silly. Pagans have money, and they like to spend it as much as anyone else. One would think the shop owners would see the word "festival" and think "cha-ching!"

Silly.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by jumbojava on Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:01 am

Wait! There's more....
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by jumbojava on Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:09 am

I just wish I could go...!
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by Beautiful_Dreamer on Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:27 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Oh you know, we were taught they were demon-possessed, would sacrifice your pets (or kids), even talking to them could seduce you into their evil ways (if you weren't strong enough). Witches were sometimes powerful workers of evil.

I don't know if you are being sarcastic here, but this is actually not too far from the truth. I was a fundamentalist/evangelical once, a Baptist, and we were told that witches worshiped Satan...the impression was given that they would try to 'bring you down', and that even *casually* using things such as Tarot could 'open you up' to evil influences that were 'looking for a host'. I did actually have these beliefs at one point, but I do not now. I don't really care what religion someone else is, as long as they respect me and other people, or go around hurting others or spreading hate.

I used to use Ouija and other things like that before and I was never 'possessed', and now I just think it's silly.
I don't know anything about Tarot except that it doesn't seem to be related to 'spirits' at all.

As for the later question of whether or not people who believe this also believe that God can protect them...even though this is stated in Scripture more than once, I think it's just not thought of. I think the idea is that, even if God can protect you, you really shouldn't 'mess with that stuff' to begin with. Better safe than sorry, I guess.
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TPaine on Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:11 pm

WTF? First I read Bear's post:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
Worse than that, is those who say they will treat all kinds of people, but in practice not give them the treatment that they need. I've run across that one too.

all
where I find out that there are evidently Christian doctors that are following in the footsteps of Doctor Josef Mengele. Then in the link that JJ posted it said that
Still, a dozen or so Christian groups and churches are trying to organize a "wall of prayer" around the village Saturday, said James Horning, executive director of Crossfire Youth Ministries in nearby Eprhata, Pa.

"We are asking the Christians in the community to come out and make a circle around the entire facility and stand there for one hour and pray on behalf of the community, and then go home," Horning said. "No signs, no shouting, no protests, just a visible sign that we disapprove ... of the whole underlying theme."
Is the Christian Right now moving towards Nancy NoJoy's Christian Identity beliefs? Have they become so bigoted that they believe anyone who doesn't agree with their narrow interpretation of religion deserves no basic rights in this country?
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:41 pm

When I was in school, they ran a free clinic for people who were unable to pay.

It was/is a good way to get required hours, and in my opinion give to the community as well. Apparently, others just saw it as a good way to get hours.

There was a patient who was rather famous around there, I'll call her Jenny (since that seems to be a common theme around here right now. Well, Jenny was a pre-op male to female transexual. She would use the free clinic because she was trying to save up for her conversion process, the meds required and everything, and as such could't afford other care, health insurance, or qualify for medicare/whatnot.

Everyone in the school had heard stories about her. She was rather famous.

One day, I was working in the clinic, with a couple of other interns, and the staff doctor came over. Jenny was there, and it was my spot in the rotation. If I wasn't comfortable, one of the other interns could "handle"her, but it was my turn. Now, I'm not going to say that it was the most comfortable thing for me to do, as a farm kid from the bible belt, but I was of the opinion that when you are in school, it is the best time to learn and step outside your box. So I agreed.

I looked over the chart, and there really wasn't anything going on. I didn't think to much of it at the time, sometimes when you are in a hurry, you don't take that good of notes, especially as a student. I figured we were just in for a quick wellness check, and I could just get some easy credits, and be on with my day.

Then I actually meet Jenny. By the gods, she has some actual things that we need to work on. She is pretty much at the end of her rope too, she doesn't really know where to turn, she doesn't seem to be getting any help, and her situation doesn't really allow her many options.

So I take over care. We schedule a few appointments, with me, and get the problems that she is having back under control.

I figure, we have the problem solved, and I'm not going to make waves for anyone, however their attitudes are, and just leave it at that.

Well, Jenny called the clinic one day, to give me a good review with the staff doctor. Apparently, I not only gave her good care, but gave her better care than she is used to getting from other places. She wanted the doctor to know that I was special, and give me a glowing report.

Well, after a few days, I started getting razing from some of my fellow students. Apparently, the staff doctor had let it slip that Jenny had called, and instead of taking it as a sign of a glowing report, took it as something else.

This pissed me off. I reported it to the board of the college, and he ended up getting shut in some basement office where he couldn't bother anyone anymore, the students involved got reprimanded, and Jenny now gets free care in the main clinic.

I was a pariah for a while, but I don't care. She is a person just like everyone else, and deserves the best care we can give.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by tmarie64 on Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:49 pm

All, my sister is a heterosexual female, completely acceptable to any Christian doctor. HOWEVER, she too gets free medical care. She was treated half assedly (word?) by the newbie docs. She finally got a doctor who REALLY wanted to care for everyone, whether they paid or not. Found out she was at stage 4 renal failure. She is now, less than 6 months after diagnosis of ANY renal failure, on dialysis once a week.
Her file also read like a fairy tale, some symptoms weren't even put in the file, things that she had complained of for 2 years.
She's on medicaid, so she doesn't attend a "free" clinic, but she does not pay for her medical care and, as a result, is treated as less than a patient by too many.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TPaine on Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:54 pm

Why the hell don't they have an emoticon for a standing ovation? We need one here.
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:55 pm

I think there is a bit of a tendency to see these certain societal groups as lesser.

It's really sad, especially in healthcare.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:43 pm

Thanks All. When I first started reading your story, hitting reaaaally close to home, I was getting uncomfortable afraid of where it was going. I think I'm gonna sit down and cry now, in a good way. Smile

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by DotNotInOz on Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:51 pm

"My personal feeling is that it's not something that I'd want to have anything to do with," said Jane Lesher, standing Friday amid the yarn creations of her shop The Soxy Lady, which will close Saturday...

The "Soxy" Lady? ICK! and mega-ick.

That's so cutesy (and borderline smarmy) that I'd be grateful as hell she's choosing to close that day.

In town Friday, one shop had a wreath and a sign on the door that said "Proud to be an American." A note on the door says the owner would be in Washington on Saturday "actively supporting my political beliefs. And of course NOT SUPPORTING the activity taking place in the village today."

Ooookay. So, if your beliefs compel you to close rather than do business with those "nasty" Pagans and witches, at least have the good manners to put a note on the door that says no more than, "Closed until Monday." 'Nuff said, no need to belabor your reason for closing.

But no, gotta proclaim that you're among "the righteous."

ICK, again!
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:58 pm

Beautiful_Dreamer wrote:
TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Oh you know, we were taught they were demon-possessed, would sacrifice your pets (or kids), even talking to them could seduce you into their evil ways (if you weren't strong enough). Witches were sometimes powerful workers of evil.

I don't know if you are being sarcastic here, but this is actually not too far from the truth. I was a fundamentalist/evangelical once, a Baptist, and we were told that witches worshiped Satan...the impression was given that they would try to 'bring you down', and that even *casually* using things such as Tarot could 'open you up' to evil influences that were 'looking for a host'. I did actually have these beliefs at one point, but I do not now. I don't really care what religion someone else is, as long as they respect me and other people, or go around hurting others or spreading hate.

I used to use Ouija and other things like that before and I was never 'possessed', and now I just think it's silly.
I don't know anything about Tarot except that it doesn't seem to be related to 'spirits' at all.

As for the later question of whether or not people who believe this also believe that God can protect them...even though this is stated in Scripture more than once, I think it's just not thought of. I think the idea is that, even if God can protect you, you really shouldn't 'mess with that stuff' to begin with. Better safe than sorry, I guess.

No, BD, I wasn't being sarcastic. We were raised the same.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by MaineCaptain on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:03 pm

Tiger and BD, you two must be very strong people to have been able to break free of the fear, that, that teaching gives you.

I don't want to sound patronizing, just wanted to say, to some small extend I understand and do admire you both.

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:18 pm

Thanks MC!

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by Beautiful_Dreamer on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:53 pm

TED,
I wasn't raised a Christian...maybe that was why I was more 'susceptible' to those beliefs...they were from the first 'major' group of Christians I spent time around, and so I didn't have any other religious teaching. This fruit is bad, but they were overall good people, and probably would feel awful to know that beliefs like theirs were behind things such as this. Well, some would. Some wouldn't give a shit.

I had the teachings about how to treat other people, but I didn't know any different in terms of Christianity. Many people I was around were in the same boat, I think.

Thanks, MC! And I love your icon, it's adorable!
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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:05 pm

Oh okay BD...thanks for the history! I didn't know that about your background.

Yeah, MC's avatar is adorable (but here's a secret, so's she!)

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Re: No Shirt, No Shoes, Not Christian - No Service

Post by MaineCaptain on Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:06 pm

Oh Tiger
So are you

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