Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:24 pm

Davelaw wrote:If y'all only knew the analogy I use to explain Ebon's Luciferianism to other's this thread would have in stitches.

Well, don't keep us in the dark.
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Davelaw on Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:33 pm

Ebon, believes that Lucifer is God's former servant who found that Justice was no longer served and rebelled to effect change

So I use the Disney Corp example when Eisner was head and Walt's nephew Roy engineered a shareholder rebellion to force Disney back on course

Disney has the image of good but wasn't

he who rebelled against the good image wasn't evil
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:42 pm

sacrificialgoddess wrote:
Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
sacrificialgoddess wrote:It just grates that Disney has my beloved Stan Lee by the short hairs.

Except for the 7.8 Billion dollar payout, right? This is hardly a hostile takeover...

I said Stan Lee. Not Marvel. I realize that the two are pretty synonymous, since he and the late, great Jack Kirby made Marvel what it is today, but they weren't the ones in charge of Marvel all that time, and Marvel actually owns most of Lee's creations, meaning that he has to go along with a lot of this, no matter how he feels about it. And I honestly don't know how he feels about it. But that 7.8 Billion didn't go into Lee's pocket. His creativity was just another commodity in the whole thing.

Right but Stan has been getting a bum, deal since forever anyway. Its one of the tragedies of early comic artists, Joel Schuster and Jerry Siegel got it a lot worse than Lee ever did, and Kirby, oh boy...

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:49 pm

Davelaw wrote:Ebon, believes that Lucifer is God's former servant who found that Justice was no longer served and rebelled to effect change

So I use the Disney Corp example when Eisner was head and Walt's nephew Roy engineered a shareholder rebellion to force Disney back on course

Disney has the image of good but wasn't

he who rebelled against the good image wasn't evil

That's pretty good.
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Davelaw on Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:01 pm

Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
sacrificialgoddess wrote:
Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
sacrificialgoddess wrote:It just grates that Disney has my beloved Stan Lee by the short hairs.

Except for the 7.8 Billion dollar payout, right? This is hardly a hostile takeover...

I said Stan Lee. Not Marvel. I realize that the two are pretty synonymous, since he and the late, great Jack Kirby made Marvel what it is today, but they weren't the ones in charge of Marvel all that time, and Marvel actually owns most of Lee's creations, meaning that he has to go along with a lot of this, no matter how he feels about it. And I honestly don't know how he feels about it. But that 7.8 Billion didn't go into Lee's pocket. His creativity was just another commodity in the whole thing.

Right but Stan has been getting a bum, deal since forever anyway. Its one of the tragedies of early comic artists, Joel Schuster and Jerry Siegel got it a lot worse than Lee ever did, and Kirby, oh boy...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32645353/ns/business-media_biz/
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:01 pm

Davelaw wrote:
Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
sacrificialgoddess wrote:
Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
sacrificialgoddess wrote:It just grates that Disney has my beloved Stan Lee by the short hairs.

Except for the 7.8 Billion dollar payout, right? This is hardly a hostile takeover...

I said Stan Lee. Not Marvel. I realize that the two are pretty synonymous, since he and the late, great Jack Kirby made Marvel what it is today, but they weren't the ones in charge of Marvel all that time, and Marvel actually owns most of Lee's creations, meaning that he has to go along with a lot of this, no matter how he feels about it. And I honestly don't know how he feels about it. But that 7.8 Billion didn't go into Lee's pocket. His creativity was just another commodity in the whole thing.

Right but Stan has been getting a bum, deal since forever anyway. Its one of the tragedies of early comic artists, Joel Schuster and Jerry Siegel got it a lot worse than Lee ever did, and Kirby, oh boy...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32645353/ns/business-media_biz/

And that I suppose, is the Rub.

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Ebon on Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am

I still use Dave's Disney analogy to explain the basics of my faith whenever it comes up. Dave, I'd offer you royalties but, y'know, man of straw...

I pretty much gave up on Marvel after the debacle that was Civil War. The basic premise of Civil War was that a public tragedy pushes the government into passing a law that all costumed heroes and/or those with extranormal abilities, must register, which involves revealing their identity to the government, being trained in some cases and accepting some controls on their work.

Sounds great, right? A really interesting exploration on freedom, civil rights and the question "who watches the watchmen?". Marvel advertised it with the slogan "Whose side are you on?", the implication being that both sides had reasonable points and arguments and that either side was a valid position. Sounds great and should have been great. And the first couple of issues were really good. Iron Man would side with the pro-reg side, that's in his character. Captain America, the embodiment of the American dream, would lead the anti-reg side. Again, makes total sense.

And then Marvel fucked it up enormously. Mark Millar (who wrote the central Civil War book although every book was involved) claims that the pro-reg side were supposed to be the ones in the right but even in the book that Millar was writing, the pro-reg side unleashed the cyborg clone of a dead god who then murdered one of their closest friends; attempted to bring the anti-reg heroes in using deadly force before the act was even law, locked up the anti-reg heroes in an extra-dimensional gulag without even the pretence of due process and eventually conscripts some of the most psychotic villains in the Marvel universe (Including Bullseye and frickin' Venom) to bring down the anti-reg side.

Then Millar has twit reporter Sally Floyd tell Cap (the living embodiment of American ideals) that he can't really represent America because he doesn't follow NASCAR or have a MySpace page. "Wallbanger" is not a strong enough word.


Yeah, that was pretty much when I gave up on Marvel. Really, it was just the crowning turn in a waterpipe that included the X-Men becoming too fixated on cool new powers to remember that they're supposed to be an analogy for every minority group in history; the Decimation event that killed off 98% of mutants just when they were starting to do some really interesting stuff with the mutant subculture and One More Day (a story that involved Spidey selling his marriage to Marvel's version of the devil to save his extremely elderly aunt who had already told him to let her go; and it all happened because Joe Quesada is unwilling to let characters grow and mature).
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:21 pm

Ebon wrote:I still use Dave's Disney analogy to explain the basics of my faith whenever it comes up. Dave, I'd offer you royalties but, y'know, man of straw...

I pretty much gave up on Marvel after the debacle that was Civil War. The basic premise of Civil War was that a public tragedy pushes the government into passing a law that all costumed heroes and/or those with extranormal abilities, must register, which involves revealing their identity to the government, being trained in some cases and accepting some controls on their work.

Sounds great, right? A really interesting exploration on freedom, civil rights and the question "who watches the watchmen?". Marvel advertised it with the slogan "Whose side are you on?", the implication being that both sides had reasonable points and arguments and that either side was a valid position. Sounds great and should have been great. And the first couple of issues were really good. Iron Man would side with the pro-reg side, that's in his character. Captain America, the embodiment of the American dream, would lead the anti-reg side. Again, makes total sense.

And then Marvel fucked it up enormously. Mark Millar (who wrote the central Civil War book although every book was involved) claims that the pro-reg side were supposed to be the ones in the right but even in the book that Millar was writing, the pro-reg side unleashed the cyborg clone of a dead god who then murdered one of their closest friends; attempted to bring the anti-reg heroes in using deadly force before the act was even law, locked up the anti-reg heroes in an extra-dimensional gulag without even the pretence of due process and eventually conscripts some of the most psychotic villains in the Marvel universe (Including Bullseye and frickin' Venom) to bring down the anti-reg side.

Then Millar has twit reporter Sally Floyd tell Cap (the living embodiment of American ideals) that he can't really represent America because he doesn't follow NASCAR or have a MySpace page. "Wallbanger" is not a strong enough word.


Yeah, that was pretty much when I gave up on Marvel. Really, it was just the crowning turn in a waterpipe that included the X-Men becoming too fixated on cool new powers to remember that they're supposed to be an analogy for every minority group in history; the Decimation event that killed off 98% of mutants just when they were starting to do some really interesting stuff with the mutant subculture and One More Day (a story that involved Spidey selling his marriage to Marvel's version of the devil to save his extremely elderly aunt who had already told him to let her go; and it all happened because Joe Quesada is unwilling to let characters grow and mature).

Secret Invasion was awesome.

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Ebon on Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:38 pm

I actually read that.

It sucked. Nothing of any real import actually happened with the exception of the return of a minor character.
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:58 pm

I wanted to read Civil War. But I am poor. Sad

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:06 am

Ebon wrote:I actually read that.

It sucked. Nothing of any real import actually happened with the exception of the return of a minor character.

...Nick Fury is a minor Character?

Norman Osbourne assuming control of the Initiative and the Meta Human Registry?

These are universe wide...

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:45 am

Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
Ebon wrote:I actually read that.

It sucked. Nothing of any real import actually happened with the exception of the return of a minor character.

...Nick Fury is a minor Character?

Norman Osbourne assuming control of the Initiative and the Meta Human Registry?

These are universe wide...

Nick Fury was gone!?!?


I have been too poor for too long! I need to get back into my comic book addiction!

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Ebon on Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:04 pm

Gorm_Sionnach wrote: ...Nick Fury is a minor Character?

Relatively, yeah. Although he did get the best line of the book ("Yeah? Well, my god has a hammer")

Norman Osbourne assuming control of the Initiative and the Meta Human Registry?

These are universe wide...

Ok, point. That said, I'm not happy with the direction they've taken Norman either. He was always a fairly low-level villain who's mission in life was largely to fuck with Spidey. Now, he's suddenly Lex Luthor?
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:24 pm

Ebon wrote:
Gorm_Sionnach wrote: ...Nick Fury is a minor Character?

Relatively, yeah. Although he did get the best line of the book ("Yeah? Well, my god has a hammer")

Norman Osbourne assuming control of the Initiative and the Meta Human Registry?

These are universe wide...

Ok, point. That said, I'm not happy with the direction they've taken Norman either. He was always a fairly low-level villain who's mission in life was largely to fuck with Spidey. Now, he's suddenly Lex Luthor?

Well this does go back to the rather unfortunate Clone Saga (shudders), but they established (or retconed) that Norman was always Lex Luthor...

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Ebon on Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:35 pm

Ah, I may have surprseed that due to the trauma that was the Clone Saga.
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by wmdkitty on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:56 pm

Ugh. Disney IS evil -- while in recent years we've seen more proactive ladies in their works, they still end up needing to be rescued by the hero.

Off the top of my head, Jasmine was portrayed as a free spirit, independent, wanting to go her own way, but in the end she submits, and gets married. (To be fair, Aladdin does treat her like an actual person.)

When will Disney produce a story about an epic heroine, one who slays the dragon and saves the prince (or princess, if she's so inclined)? Where are the strong women?
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:11 pm

WMDKitty wrote:Ugh. Disney IS evil -- while in recent years we've seen more proactive ladies in their works, they still end up needing to be rescued by the hero.

Off the top of my head, Jasmine was portrayed as a free spirit, independent, wanting to go her own way, but in the end she submits, and gets married. (To be fair, Aladdin does treat her like an actual person.)

When will Disney produce a story about an epic heroine, one who slays the dragon and saves the prince (or princess, if she's so inclined)? Where are the strong women?


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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by wmdkitty on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:13 pm

sacrificialgoddess wrote:
WMDKitty wrote:Ugh. Disney IS evil -- while in recent years we've seen more proactive ladies in their works, they still end up needing to be rescued by the hero.

Off the top of my head, Jasmine was portrayed as a free spirit, independent, wanting to go her own way, but in the end she submits, and gets married. (To be fair, Aladdin does treat her like an actual person.)

When will Disney produce a story about an epic heroine, one who slays the dragon and saves the prince (or princess, if she's so inclined)? Where are the strong women?


*grabby paws*

WANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANTWANT!!!!!!!!

Where can I find this?
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:16 pm

Here's what a google search got me:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Buffy+the+animated+series&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Ke7PSuDdNI6f8AaXjODwAw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQqwQwAA#

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by wmdkitty on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:20 pm

But was it ever produced?
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:22 pm

They never found a buyer, so pretty much what you see on YouTube is what there is.

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:45 am

WMDKitty wrote:Ugh. Disney IS evil -- while in recent years we've seen more proactive ladies in their works, they still end up needing to be rescued by the hero.

Off the top of my head, Jasmine was portrayed as a free spirit, independent, wanting to go her own way, but in the end she submits, and gets married. (To be fair, Aladdin does treat her like an actual person.)

When will Disney produce a story about an epic heroine, one who slays the dragon and saves the prince (or princess, if she's so inclined)? Where are the strong women?

Well there was Mulan where a Chinese peasants daughter manages to join the army, defeat the Huns, save the Chinese empire and land the good looking General (she saves him), it certainly has a lot more Grrrl power than other Disney fare.

Then again if you want actual Grrl power, you need CN and the Power Puff Girls. Considering that the original animated short that spawned them was the whoopass girls, its shouldn't dome as any surprise.

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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Davelaw on Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:50 pm

Princess Mononoke has a strong female character.
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Re: Marvel Comic announces it will no longer tackle tough issues

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:57 pm

Davelaw wrote:Princess Mononoke has a strong female character.

Miramax is a subsidiary of Disney, plus it was a studio Ghibli film. On the other hand, yes San is an awesome Character, as is Eboshi, Marrow (though she is a wolf...).

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