English Language Classics

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:06 pm

Davelaw wrote:
Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
Davelaw wrote:you would have better argument if you were arguing that one can enjoy Ricard Wagner without knowing Norse mythology; but who really enjoys Wagner?

... I can think of a couple, but they aren't particularly reputable Razz

bits and pieces sure; the Valkyrie is classic; but I better have a gun to my head if I'm listening to the whole Cycle

LOL I did it once and it wasn't that bad. Once is enough for me though.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

The Ring

Post by OmarKhayyam on Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:46 pm

Wotan's farewell always makes me sad. Crying or Very sad I have a daughter and we have had our problems. I can't listen to Wotan w/o thinking of her. Now ALL 6+ hours - that is a bit much. But some of the music from it - just glorious. Glo-o-o-rious. Very Happy

Anyway - as to the topic sure the bible is embedded in Western Civ and it is hard to read any really good fiction that does at least borrow from it.

But creation "science" in science class. No way Jose! Angry It ain't science. It's religion by another name. And a rather small sect religion at that.
avatar
OmarKhayyam

Posts : 65
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Pulaski County, Ky

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:01 am

You know. I don't think you need to read the Bible in order to enjoy books like Good Omens. The stuff they put in there is infused into our culture enough that most folks would get the references anyway.

_________________
Remember one thing about democracy. We can have anything we want and at the same time, we always end up with exactly what we deserve.

Edward Albee
avatar
sacrificialgoddess
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3199
Join date : 2009-04-01
Location : Oklahoma

http://kltompkins.wordpress.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:31 am

I think you'd have to be crazy to read the whole bible, if it wasn't your field! That's like sitting through the Ring Cycle 50 times in a row. Smile

Some of the myths, though are big in the culture, like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny myths. Saying Cain and Abel is shorthand in our culture for brothers at loggerheads but aside from knowing that they are brothers, neither one good people, and one killed the other over a woman (although that part is left out of the Christian bible at least), you don't need anything else.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:36 am

Davelaw wrote:I'm not advocating forcing my Beliefs or Holy Book on any one; but still I gotta ask-Can one truly be literate in the English Language classics and not having a working knowledge of the OT and NT?

The Bible should be read for sure! Both because of its historical and mythological value, and just so people are ware of both its wise and silly contents.

And not to forget: actually reading the Bible is one of the surest ways to become an agnostic or to deconvert Wink

_________________
Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
After your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!
avatar
Daldianus
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1039
Join date : 2009-07-25
Location : Luxembourg

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:44 am

I don't think that Celsus, but it is a good way to become a follower of the god(s) of the religion rather than a follower of the bible.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:50 am

OmarKhayyam wrote:But creation "science" in science class. No way Jose! Angry It ain't science. It's religion by another name. And a rather small sect religion at that.

No, no it isn't creation science, it's Intelligent Design...

_________________
If you approach the Gaelic gods with 'I'm not worthy', they're going to reply to you with 'Then come back when you are.

Coffee Three Shouts on a Hilltop
avatar
Gorm_Sionnach
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 838
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Toronto, ON, Canada.

http://threeshoutsonahilltop.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:51 am

Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
OmarKhayyam wrote:But creation "science" in science class. No way Jose! Angry It ain't science. It's religion by another name. And a rather small sect religion at that.

No, no it isn't creation science, it's Intelligent Design...

Intelligent design is the same as 'creation science'

_________________
Eternity is really long, especially near the end. - Woody Allen
After your death you will be what you were before your birth. - Arthur Schopenhauer
Do check this out: Ideas worth spreading and radioLab!
avatar
Daldianus
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 1039
Join date : 2009-07-25
Location : Luxembourg

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:52 am

I would not say some of the humans I know were the product of Intelligent Design....

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:15 am

Celsus wrote:
Gorm_Sionnach wrote:
OmarKhayyam wrote:But creation "science" in science class. No way Jose! Angry It ain't science. It's religion by another name. And a rather small sect religion at that.

No, no it isn't creation science, it's Intelligent Design...

Intelligent design is the same as 'creation science'

No Wink creation science is Wink different than the Wink scientific theory of Intelligent Design.

_________________
If you approach the Gaelic gods with 'I'm not worthy', they're going to reply to you with 'Then come back when you are.

Coffee Three Shouts on a Hilltop
avatar
Gorm_Sionnach
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 838
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : Toronto, ON, Canada.

http://threeshoutsonahilltop.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:20 am

Hello? Theory as opposed to hypothesis:


A hypothesis (from Greek ὑπόθεσις [iˈpoθesis]; plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for an observable phenomenon. The term derives from the Greek, hypotithenai meaning "to put under" or "to suppose." For a hypothesis to be put forward as a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot be satisfactorily explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously in common and informal usage, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory – although the difference is sometimes more one of degree than of principle.

_________________
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
avatar
gillyflower
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3400
Join date : 2009-04-01

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:25 pm

For most people interested in the Christian Bible as a literary work, I think it'd be sufficient to pick up a good collection of children's bible stories and read it. Most references are to characters in those stories anyway.

Personally, I think that anyone wishing to be considered educated should have at least a passing familiarity with the scriptures of the world's major religions.
avatar
DotNotInOz

Posts : 2795
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : St Louis MO burb

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Davelaw on Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:00 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:For most people interested in the Christian Bible as a literary work, I think it'd be sufficient to pick up a good collection of children's bible stories and read it. Most references are to characters in those stories anyway.

Personally, I think that anyone wishing to be considered educated should have at least a passing familiarity with the scriptures of the world's major religions.

agreed; although both the Jews and Muslims will tell you our English versions-don't do their stories justice.
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by DotNotInOz on Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:46 am

I dunno about that for the Tanakh, Dave. Hubby's relatives say that its official translation [JPS or Jewish Publication Society] gets pretty close to the Hebrew nuances, at any rate, more so than translations ordinarily do.

You probably don't want to hear what they think of the Christian version of their stories, however.
avatar
DotNotInOz

Posts : 2795
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : St Louis MO burb

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Davelaw on Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:42 am

I'm friends with Clyde and Howie and one of my best friends from undergrad used to be the Jewish student advisor at Texas Tech-I know
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by DotNotInOz on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:23 am

I won't get started on how loathsome I find the Good News translation.

But then, I don't much like the NIV either, and that's really one of the less simplistic of the modern English translations.

Give me the RSV or the NKJV when I'm not in a mood to wallow in the archaisms of the KJV itself. Even though the latter two have long since been displaced by better translations, I still love the rhythms of their language. Despite the extensive modernization of the NKJV's language, it remarkably retains the melody of the KJV's, I think.

What's your favored translation?
avatar
DotNotInOz

Posts : 2795
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : St Louis MO burb

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Davelaw on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:31 am

KJV for spiritual purposes and for capturing the artistic intent of the OT

the Jerusalem Bible for readability
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Sakhaiva on Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Interesting topic! I can only add my speculation and personal opinion to the mix DL:

In the days the 'classics' were written (I'll generalize -- a lot -- to stay succinct) education -- as a whole -- was much different than we have today. As a general rule, the children who were lucky enough to have access to a good education were well studied in Biblical literature... a very *good* school also taught rudiments of Latin early on; etymological studies add so much depth to the soul... it's a shame most people get though life unaware of where words/ideas originated from....

What strikes me most about researching the historical timeline of the English Bible is how lazy the newer translations seem to be. Historical translations offered more than just the stories... in reading them, I'm often stunned by the elegance of the language itself. The translators were fantastic scholars... consider Tyndale; it's said he was so fluent in eight languages that any one of them could have been his native tongue. (Tyndale, more than Shakespeare, is often considered to be the "architect of the English Language') He was responsible for the first English translation (taken from Erasmian Latin translation, which was taken from the Orig Greek manuscripts)

So perhaps, going back to the OP, it is not that classic texts were good because the writer was familiar with Biblical writings, but that the classic texts were good because the writer was familiar with linguistically interesting and beautiful versions of Biblical writings. This is mostly just my opinion and speculation of course Smile

I do not think TS Eliot would have produced works such as Ash Wednesday had he been raised with a copy of the "New Living Revised Paraphrased version of the Writing formerly known as NIV."


.................

To be a good writer, I think it's best for one to have a good volume of knowledge to 'support' the words being written .... in a way that is not obvious to the reader. That way, the reader can dig into the story like a hungry person digs into a juicy ripe peach. Hmmm... I think I'll go grab a juicy peach right now.
avatar
Sakhaiva

Posts : 737
Join date : 2009-04-01
Location : Sunny California

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Ken on Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:02 am

If you're reading the Bible for literary purposes, the KJV is the only possible choice because it's the version most often quoted and alluded to in English literature.
avatar
Ken

Posts : 53
Join date : 2009-07-07
Location : Pittsburgh

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Sakhaiva on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:20 pm

... or a Geneva (Puritan)..... or Taverner's from the 1500's.... the "Bishop's" (Elizabethian/anti puritan)

Wycliff:
1 Therfor we, iustified of feith, haue we pees at God bi oure Lord Jhesu Crist. 2 Bi whom we han niy goyng to, bi feith in to this grace, in which we stonden, and han glorie in the hope of the glorie of Goddis children. 3 And not this oneli, but also we glorien in tribulaciouns, witynge that tribulacioun worchith pacience, 4 and pacience preuyng, and preuyng hope. 5 And hope confoundith not, for the charite of God is spred abrood in oure hertis bi the Hooli Goost, that is youun to vs.

Tyndale:
1 Because therfore that we are iustified by fayth we are at peace with god thorow oure Lorde Iesue Christ: 2 by who we have awaye in thorow fayth vnto this grace wherin we stonde aud reioyce in hope of the prayse that shalbe geven of God. 3 Nether do we so only: but also we reioyce in tribulacion. For we know that tribulacion bringeth pacience 4 pacience bringeth experience experience bringeth hope. 5 And hope maketh not ashamed for the love of God is sheed abrod in oure hertes by the holy goost which is geven vnto vs.

Coverdale:
1 Because therfore that we are iustified by faith, we haue peace with God thorow oure LORDE Iesus Christ 2 by who also we haue an intraunce in faith vnto this grace, wherin we stonde, & reioyse in the hope of ye glorye for to come, which God shal geue. 3 Not onely yt, but we reioyse also i troubles, for so moch as we knowe, yt trouble bryngeth paciece, 4 paciece bryngeth experiece, experiece bryngeth hope: 5 As for hope, is letteth vs not come to cofusion, because the loue of God is shed abrode in oure hertes, by the holy goost which is geuen vnto vs.

Bishop's:
1 Therefore being iustified by fayth, we are at peace with god, thorowe our Lorde Iesus Christe: 2 By whom also we haue had an entrauce by fayth, vnto this grace wherin we stande, and reioyce in hope of the glorie of God. 3 Not that only: but also we reioyce in tribulations, knowyng that tribulation worketh pacience: 4 Pacience profe, profe hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed, because the loue of God is shedde abrode in our heartes by the holy ghost, which is geuen vnto vs.

Geneva:
1 Then being iustified by faith, we haue peace toward God through our Lord Iesus Christ. 2 By who also through faith, we haue had this accesse into this grace, wherein we stand, and reioyce vnder ye hope of the glory of God. 3 Neither that onely, but also we reioyce in tribulations, knowing that tribulation bringeth forth patience, 4 And patience experience, and experience hope, 5 And hope maketh not ashamed, because the loue of God is shed abroade in our heartes by the holy Ghost, which is giuen vnto vs.

KJ (1611)
1 Therefore being iustified by faith, wee haue peace with God, through our Lord Iesus Christ. 2 By whom also wee haue accesse by faith, into this grace wherein wee stand, and reioyce in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not onely so, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh patience: 4 And patience, experience: and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed, because the loue of God is shed abroad in our hearts, by the holy Ghost, which is giuen vnto vs.

Wesley
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have been introduced through faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also, 4 knowing that tribulation worketh patience, And patience experience, and experience hope; 5 And hope shameth us not, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


LOL Cat
1 Lissenup, youse yammerin, wez miawing bout Ceiling Cat anna Kitten Jebus,2 we seez Invisible Water Dish anna graze inna littrboxz, anna miaw-miaw to da Ceiling Cat.3 More d00dz, webe yammerin bouts Tribbles, anna Trouble Wit Tribbles (datbe da Staw Twek, Season 2, Episode 15) makus gud catz;4 anna keeps doon it, nice earz; anna nice paws, noses.5 Miaws summore, slavin ta Ceiling Cat iz gud an youse bin miawin to da Hover Cat, gud fur youse, srsly.


(just wondering if anyone would read to the end) Wink
avatar
Sakhaiva

Posts : 737
Join date : 2009-04-01
Location : Sunny California

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Davelaw on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:38 pm

love the LOL cat bible
avatar
Davelaw

Posts : 1684
Join date : 2009-07-18
Location : Houston Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Sakhaiva on Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:26 pm

isn't it silly?

My favorite part is what Xristocharis posts a while back:

A moar betteh laif. We haz it.


1 B4, yu wuz bad kitteh, srsly.2 U no smell gud.3 Wuz alwais goin in heets, LOLs. Ttly embaresin. An all time u fite fite fites. Ceiling Cat not want.4 But Ceiling Cat lovded yu newayz.5 Even tho yu not gud kitteh, Ceiling Cat tell Jebus bout u. Jebus go finded u, even tho u wuz vereh stinkeh kitteh.6 Jebus washed u off an maded u smell gud.7 Now you iz speshul an can haz RESPECT! An Jebus give yu best cookie EVAH!
8 U can haz cookie not cuz u earnded it, but cuz iz preznt frum Ceiling Cat.9 Kittehs braggin "See teh cookie? Maded it mah selfz!" got to STFU, srsly.10 Ceiling Cat maded kittehs cuz He wantz kittehs keepin Him compny an watch Him make cookies nstuf.
Jebus maded teh kitteh door


11 Membr wunz u wuz stuck outside Ceiling Cats houz.12 U no haz cheezburger, no haz cookie, no LOLs, an u wuz liek WTF?? Cud mai life sux smores?!!1!13 But Jebus opended teh door an sais, "O hai keete keete! Wanna coem in mah houz?"14 Jebus maded teh kitteh door sos kittehs cud be inside wid Him when dey wantz.15 At first Ceiling cat wus liek, "Hey Jebus, WTF?!!! Wair all deez stinky kittehs coem from!!!" But Jebus sais, "Kittehs wid me, k?" Den Ceiling Cat wuz liek, "k."16 Kittehs wunz wuz fraid Ceiling Cat. He wuz alwais liek, "Hey U, GTF off Mai lawn!!!" an throwded stuf.17 Den Jebus went out to find kittehs, Dey wuz hidin in teh bushes an sum wuz kinda far. Jebus wuz liek, "Heeer kitteh, kitteh..."18 An he tooked teh kittehs into Ceiling Cats houz.19 First kittehs wuz liek, "Oh noes! Halp! Halp!" But Jebus petted teh kittehs an shareded sum his cheezburgers. Den kittehs wuz no fraid Ceiling Cats place ne moer.20 Soz new kittehs met old kittehs, an all kittehs wuz gettin nice rubs frum Jebus while Ceiling Cat maded teh cookies. Wuz no fites, just purrs.21 Srsly, Jebus and kittehs an Ceiling Cat maded happy famly.22 Den Hovr Cat marked evrboodi wid Hiz scent.


.... see what technology has done to our language? LOL!
avatar
Sakhaiva

Posts : 737
Join date : 2009-04-01
Location : Sunny California

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:18 pm

I'm cringing.

And to think that I believed technology has improved the human condition...

Silly me!
avatar
DotNotInOz

Posts : 2795
Join date : 2009-04-02
Location : St Louis MO burb

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:49 pm

For anyone interested, you can find the whole bible in cat at
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

And floating somewhere on the web is the lolcat wiccan rede.

_________________
Remember one thing about democracy. We can have anything we want and at the same time, we always end up with exactly what we deserve.

Edward Albee
avatar
sacrificialgoddess
Admin
Admin

Posts : 3199
Join date : 2009-04-01
Location : Oklahoma

http://kltompkins.wordpress.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Sakhaiva on Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:36 am

I had to google it SG.... srsly:

1. We’re in ur perfek luv and trust, bidin ur rede like we must.
2. Dat fud urs, dis fud mine; keep in mind, an all be fine.
3. 3 times round that sirkl pass so evul spiruts CAN NOT HAS.
4. Kittehs wind up spell in ball by speekin it in wurds of LOL.
5. Sofft of paw and grate big ears; do not yowl and u shall heers!
6. Rightpaw round teh biggening moon, kittehs sing teh Witchc@t Roon.
7. Leftpaw round teh smalling moon, kittehs sing teh baneful tune.
8. Lady can has moon of new; kittehs hed-bash her times two.
9. When can has moon full enuf, then can has all sorts of stuff!
10. When North wind come, kitteh, take care! Srsly, iz cold out ther.
11. When South wind to kitteh sing, lov will come an smooches bring.
12. When teh West wind blow the mosts, iz no rest for kitteh ghosts.
13. When teh East wind stir teh air, fill teh bowlz wit fud to share.
14. In metal bukkit, put nine woodz; burn fast or slo, jus burnz em goodz!
15. Teh Elder is teh Lady’s tree. Be respektin it. Srsly.
16. When teh Year-Wheel starts to spin, lite Beltane fire FTW!
17. When Wheel iz turned and Yule is bornz, bow to Teh Ceiling Cat With Hornz.
18. Be respektin leafs and trees, and by teh Lady blessed beez!
19. Ur stone. U fling it. Strong and deft. (In streem, to find out WTF.)
20. When u has need of something moar, avoid kitteh who yowlz “NOT YOURS!”
21. Foolish cat iz foolish. U avoid him, or look foolish too.
22. Oh hai! I’ze purrin. Kthxbai! Warm kitteh heart, bright kitteh eye.
23. Teh Three-Fold Law: respekt it, pliz, cuz good or bad comez back in threez.
24. Misforchun? You has it, just a bit? Mai bloo star. Let me show you it.
25. Dis kitteh r mine, and I’z theyrs too. Keep this srsly 4 troo.
26. Teh Wiccan Rede can has wurds eight: kitteh harm none, do thy will. Thx! Grate!
avatar
Sakhaiva

Posts : 737
Join date : 2009-04-01
Location : Sunny California

Back to top Go down

Re: English Language Classics

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum