Feuding Families Riot

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Feuding Families Riot

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:50 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090824/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_feuding_families

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:26 pm

They need to go on Family Feud.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:40 am

This reminds me of something I've read recently (I think in Malcom Gladwell's Outlier):

There are much more family feuds in societies who members are, or even have been quite some time ago, shepherds and other live stock 'farmers'. The reason being (especially in the older times), that unlike agricultural farmers, they had/have to project an image of toughness to non-family members, thus discouraging them from stealing sheep, cattle or whatever. It was they way of saying: "Yes, it's quite easy to steal our live stock but IF we get you then you can't count on mercy!"

It was much harder to 'steal' a field. Therefore those farmers didn't have that same need.

There can be other reasons as well though of course. But according to the data it's especially the descendants of stock breeders who are vulnerable to family feuds ...

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by MaineCaptain on Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:11 pm

That Celsus is very interesting.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:20 pm

MaineCaptain wrote:That Celsus is very interesting.

That's what I thought too Smile

You can read the whole theory in chapter 6 of Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers". The chapter is called "Harlan, Kentucky - Die like a man, like your brother did".

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:22 pm

That is interesting. I'm glad I descend from hunter gatherers.

Wink
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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:28 pm

It all comes down to the 'culture of honor'.

The West has more or less overcome this by now, or grown out of it, though it still echoes in some of the family feuds, but especially the Near East still has this 'culture of honor' where people think that their 'honor' is the most important thing in the world and that everyone who attacks or besmirches it has to be punished (and this even when they are members of their own family ... :/ ) or has to compensate (often financially) for the attack.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:33 pm

I don't think it necessarily comes down to the culture of honor, but the understanding of what a real attack is.
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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:47 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I don't think it necessarily comes down to the culture of honor, but the understanding of what a real attack is.

But it was all about honor at the time. If you accepted to be insulted then you looked weak. And that made it look like stealing from you was a good idea since you were such a wimp.

So in order to guard their honor, and to project authority and strength, the live stock farmers (or sheep and goat herders) behaved in aggressive ways. Thus telling the others: "Don't try to f*ck with us or steal out animals! We may not always know who did it but if we find it out then expect no mercy!"

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:49 pm

Comparing "now" to "then" is always problematic.
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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:13 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Comparing "now" to "then" is always problematic.

Of course. But the amazing thing, according to studies and statistics, is that this 'honor' behavior still lingers on in the descendants of these people, even though they often don't even realize. Details in the book Wink The other chapters are fascinating too actually.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:17 pm

If I ever get a chance, I'll check it out. However, I have trouble seeing this as behavioral issues that arise more from a specific background, than I do as behaviors that arise from simple primate displays, and I think that it carries with it the risk of labeling a specific culture to be "inferior".

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by Daldianus on Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:27 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:If I ever get a chance, I'll check it out. However, I have trouble seeing this as behavioral issues that arise more from a specific background, than I do as behaviors that arise from simple primate displays, and I think that it carries with it the risk of labeling a specific culture to be "inferior".

Well, peaceful societies rank higher than warring ones in my book ... They're obviously more sophisticated and evolved since people don't have to fight each other (anymore) to survive.

And most people, worldwide, prefer peace to war. Exceptions apply of course.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:47 pm

I wouldn't consider this to be an example of warring
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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:27 pm

Oh, I don't know that such behavior is exclusive to descendants of long-ago herders in the U.S. I recall stories of Kansas wheat farmers whose land you were ill-advised to tread upon if you weren't expressly granted permission beforehand. Unless, of course, you didn't object to an ER visit to have shotgun pellets dug out of your posterior and wherever else they'd lodged.

Land that's posted "No Trespassing" is pretty much sacred in this regard in rural Kansas, particularly if it specifies no hunting. Anyone choosing to disregard such warnings may well be shot at and hit...not always with a pellet gun either.

I think that such territoriality is not merely emblematic of herders but also of homesteaders. A good many people I knew when I lived in very rural Southwest Kansas lived on farms their great-grandparents or grandparents had homesteaded. Back in those days, you learned to police your territory as there wasn't much speedy recourse otherwise.

Even today, it can take law enforcement a half hour or longer to get out to a farmstead. So, farmers often protect their holdings however they see fit.
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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:49 pm

I kind of skimmed the thread, but had to toss this in...
I know of a family in McLean County, KY who has a family reunion every 2 or 3 years. EVERY time they do the state police and sheriff post two staties and 3 or 4 deputies on the road in front of the house.
These people bring GUNS to their own family reunion.

Virtually every adult there has been married to almost every other adult there. You know... Bubba married Sue... John married Tracy. Both couples divorce...................................... and swap. So Bubba's with Tracy and John's with Sue..... Take that potential firebomb and multiply it by 20.

Some of them came to my niece's wedding last year..... A friend of my brother, a cop, met them outside the church and told them, "We need no guns inside. If you have any, leave them in the car." They all went back to their cars and put their weapons in the trunk.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:03 pm

No offense, but if I went to a place and there was someone outside telling me that I should take my weapons back to the car, because I didn't need them, I would not be motivated to leave my weapons in the car.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:13 pm

It does seem weird to take guns to a wedding, however.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:17 pm

Yeah, guns are pretty much prohibited in churches here, so it's pretty doubtful that I would have brought one. Still, I' not exactly inclined to trust some one who tells me that I don't need my weapons inside.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:34 pm



You forgot to take the wizard's staff!!!

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:38 pm

I don't think that they were told that. They seem to have been told not to bring their guns inside. "We don't need any guns inside" means to me that the persons holding the wedding don't want any there and I would either respect their wishes or go home.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:51 pm

gillyflower wrote:I don't think that they were told that. They seem to have been told not to bring their guns inside. "We don't need any guns inside" means to me that the persons holding the wedding don't want any there and I would either respect their wishes or go home.

I'd respect their wishes too. This might also take the form of not attending, depending on the circumstances.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:06 pm

Do you feel you have to be armed when attending your friend's houses for parties, All?

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:08 pm

No, but if I felt that I needed to be armed, a person telling me that I didn't would not provoke me to disarm myself.

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Re: Feuding Families Riot

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:14 pm

If you were going to a wedding and felt you needed to be armed for it, you really should not have gone to it, don't you think? The person was stating the house rules, which the armed men and women could either respect or they could leave. Would you have preferred a sign outside saying "No guns at this event"?

I suppose the laws in my state are different because it is a felony to bring a gun into a public building here.

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