"Vikings" given the heave ho...

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"Vikings" given the heave ho...

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:21 pm

I ran across this article, feel free to have gander.

The gist of it is that a group of Odinists, conservative Odinists even, were holding a ritual in a public park, and after several complaints, the ranger ejected them from the park, and told them they were not welcome back. If you're not all that familiar with Asatru, and Odinists specifically (from my experience they tend to be the more conservative/ folkish of Asatru branches) are on occasion accused of racism, occasionally it is justified. However in this case the issue seems to be that the group had made use of symbols appropriated by the NSDAP. Of course the practical result is that people who have no idea about religions like Odinism, who see a bunch of large, white, tattooed men, standing in a circle with arms raised to symbols they may have only seen in Inglorios Basterds, are prone to jumping to conclusions. It is both unfortunate and unjustified, as simply speaking with the men would have cleared up any issues, so perhaps the passerby's could be excused for over reacting (few things raise ire and hackles like Nazism), but the park officials, no excuse.

Here is the home page of the group in question. Having read it they are a rather Folkish and considerably conservative group, no doubt. Though I doubt this had any baring on the actions of the park officials...

Thoughts?

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Re: "Vikings" given the heave ho...

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:01 pm

Welp, I can see the ACLU jumping all over that one. And I hope so.

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Re: "Vikings" given the heave ho...

Post by AutumnalTone on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:37 pm

Though the group appears to be racist and homophobic, it was doing nothing illegal or immoral. The story I read said two deputies and a ranger showed up, chatted briefly and found out nothing sinister was going on, then left. The ranger returned later with more park personnel and booted the group.

I hope that ranger gets fired.
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Re: "Vikings" given the heave ho...

Post by John T Mainer on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:40 am

The group does appear homophobic, but I would disagree with the racist. As folkists they are focused on the blood link to the sacred ancestors as critical to their path. Rather than make them hate other races, it makes them conscious of their own cultural identity, and support those of all nations and races in rediscovering their own ancestral roots. I tend to differ with the folkists on the basis that you cannot see the bloodlines, nor can the finest geneticist detect the ties of adoption, of sworn brotherhood which bind you and your descendants to the sacred ancestors for all time.

We differ from the folkists in that we accept the gods know better than us who is of the folk. If the gods called them, and sent them to me, then I assume they know better than I, and accept them. Our Tyrbold award winner this year would be defined as black by society, but is defined as of the folk, just as I am, by the Freehold.

From what I could see, they were holding a symble, as my own Freehold does at public parks many times a year. They showed to the satisfaction of the Sherrifs department that they were doing nothing wrong, but that did not suffice for the Ranger. Where a Church picnic is deemed wholesome, on of our religious gatherings is deemed "sh%t" that won't be tolerated. Won't be tolerated based on who they are, not what they are doing. That, my friends, is a hate crime.

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Re: "Vikings" given the heave ho...

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:27 am

John T Mainer wrote:The group does appear homophobic, but I would disagree with the racist. As folkists they are focused on the blood link to the sacred ancestors as critical to their path. Rather than make them hate other races, it makes them conscious of their own cultural identity, and support those of all nations and races in rediscovering their own ancestral roots. I tend to differ with the folkists on the basis that you cannot see the bloodlines, nor can the finest geneticist detect the ties of adoption, of sworn brotherhood which bind you and your descendants to the sacred ancestors for all time.

We differ from the folkists in that we accept the gods know better than us who is of the folk. If the gods called them, and sent them to me, then I assume they know better than I, and accept them. Our Tyrbold award winner this year would be defined as black by society, but is defined as of the folk, just as I am, by the Freehold.

From what I could see, they were holding a symble, as my own Freehold does at public parks many times a year. They showed to the satisfaction of the Sherrifs department that they were doing nothing wrong, but that did not suffice for the Ranger. Where a Church picnic is deemed wholesome, on of our religious gatherings is deemed "sh%t" that won't be tolerated. Won't be tolerated based on who they are, not what they are doing. That, my friends, is a hate crime.

I feel much the same way, I daresay that though certainly homophobic, their racism is not so clear cut. I've no problem with people trying to follow an ethno-religious tradition (although if one is called by the Gods, to me it is a non-issue) if they want to, nor do I see it as terribly problematic. There are many cultures and religious traditions where a genetic tie to a specific lineage is part of the cultural identity and inclusion in ritual and the community. Nor do I see much of an issue with people promoting other cultures to follow the paths of their own ancestors. The most common example used in these instances are First Nations groups, and although there are numerous reasons for their tendency to be insular in membership, few people would bat an eye if they would say, seek the way of your own ancestors.

As far as the actions of the rangers in question, considering there are precedents where actual hate groups have held picnics in public parks without molestation; it is very troublesome that a group of people can get thrown out because they are perceived as one.

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Re: "Vikings" given the heave ho...

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:04 pm

Well, that's a mess isn't it.

Ignorance breeds fear. I don't know much about the group. Like John, I am unwilling to say who is called to the gods and who isn't.

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