Blessed be the racists and haters?

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Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Daldianus on Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:12 am

A certain Anne Catherine Emmerich had been beatified by the Pope JP2 in 2004. So far, so good, beatifying people was kind of a hobby for JP2.

But let's look at what this woman has said during her life time (in the 18th century), referring to her 'visions':

“I saw the curse pronounced by Noah upon Ham moving toward the latter like a black cloud and obscuring him. His skin lost its whiteness, he grew darker. His sin was the sin of sacrilege, the sin of one who would forcibly enter the Ark of the Covenant. I saw a most corrupt race descend from Ham and sink deeper and deeper in darkness. I see that the black, idolatrous, stupid nations are the descendants of Ham. Their color is due, not to the rays of the sun, but to the dark source whence those degraded races sprang

This is of course based on the Old Testament. Genesis 9:20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness. 24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers."

Slave masters always loved this passage.

But back to the Pope: how can you beatify such a hateful woman?

And Evangelicals shouldn't just dismiss this as a Catholic thing because Mel Gibson based big parts of his torture porn 'The Passion of the Christ' on the 'visions' of this fine lady ... and also creationism is tainted by this since it claims that Africans are the descendants of Ham.

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:46 am

I thought Gibson was a Catholic? confused

A wacky Catholic, but still...

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Daldianus on Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:49 am

sacrificialgoddess wrote:I thought Gibson was a Catholic? confused

A wacky Catholic, but still...

True, he's a member of some sort of extreme or fringe Catholic group.

But my point was that a lot of Evangelicals loved his movie, right?

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:15 am

Possibly. I refused to see it after John Dominic Crossan referred to it as a snuff film. I just wanted a little clarification.

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Daldianus on Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:39 am

sacrificialgoddess wrote:Possibly. I refused to see it after John Dominic Crossan referred to it as a snuff film. I just wanted a little clarification.

Yeah, snuff movie. Torture porn. All the same.

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Ken on Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:16 pm

Celsus wrote:
But back to the Pope: how can you beatify such a hateful woman?

Very easily if you want to throw a sop to your church's traditionalist wing.
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Davelaw on Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:53 pm

Celsus wrote:A certain Anne Catherine Emmerich had been beatified by the Pope JP2 in 2004. So far, so good, beatifying people was kind of a hobby for JP2.

But let's look at what this woman has said during her life time (in the 18th century), referring to her 'visions':

“I saw the curse pronounced by Noah upon Ham moving toward the latter like a black cloud and obscuring him. His skin lost its whiteness, he grew darker. His sin was the sin of sacrilege, the sin of one who would forcibly enter the Ark of the Covenant. I saw a most corrupt race descend from Ham and sink deeper and deeper in darkness. I see that the black, idolatrous, stupid nations are the descendants of Ham. Their color is due, not to the rays of the sun, but to the dark source whence those degraded races sprang

This is of course based on the Old Testament. Genesis 9:20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness. 24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers."

Slave masters always loved this passage.

But back to the Pope: how can you beatify such a hateful woman?

And Evangelicals shouldn't just dismiss this as a Catholic thing because Mel Gibson based big parts of his torture porn 'The Passion of the Christ' on the 'visions' of this fine lady ... and also creationism is tainted by this since it claims that Africans are the descendants of Ham.

its the Hebrew genealogy that states some of Ham's descendants settled Africa; but the main focus was on the ME-the Canaanites were the descended from Canaan son of Ham-and we have this origin story to justify enslaving the Canaanites as well as the story of the Gibeonites in Joshua-take your pick
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Chokmah on Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:48 pm

This was back in the 18th Century, what about what is happening now... in the 21st Century?

Talk about a certain Rev. Fred Phelps....



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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Daldianus on Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:23 am

Ken wrote:
Celsus wrote:
But back to the Pope: how can you beatify such a hateful woman?

Very easily if you want to throw a sop to your church's traditionalist wing.

Good point.

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by TPaine on Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:28 am

Having briefly looked at The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ according to the Meditations of Anne Catherine Emmerich. It would seem to me that this woman would fit right in with the British-Israelism or Christian Identity. Take your pick. It says at one point:
The Semites were less numerous than the children of Ham and Japheth, and among them the family of Heber and the ancestors of Abraham studiously refrained from encouraging the enterprise. Upon Heber who, as we have said, took no part in the work, God cast His eyes; and amid the general disorder and corruption, He set him and his posterity apart as a holy nation. God gave him also a new and holy language possessed by no other nation, that thereby his race should be cut off from communication with all others.

This language was the pure Hebrew, or Chaldaic. The first tongue, the mother tongue, spoken by Adam, Shem, and Noah, was different, and it is now extant only in isolated dialects. Its first pure offshoots are the Zend, the sacred tongue of India, and the language of the Bactrians. In those languages, words may be found exactly similar to the Low German of my native place. (emphasis added)
http://www.all-jesus.com/scriptures/bible1-4.htm#1.1.7

Didn't Himmler send SS scientists to India and Tibet to search for Aryans back on the '30s?
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Daldianus on Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:33 am

TPaine wrote:Having briefly looked at The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ according to the Meditations of Anne Catherine Emmerich. It would seem to me that this woman would fit right in with the British-Israelism or Christian Identity. Take your pick. It says at one point:
The Semites were less numerous than the children of Ham and Japheth, and among them the family of Heber and the ancestors of Abraham studiously refrained from encouraging the enterprise. Upon Heber who, as we have said, took no part in the work, God cast His eyes; and amid the general disorder and corruption, He set him and his posterity apart as a holy nation. God gave him also a new and holy language possessed by no other nation, that thereby his race should be cut off from communication with all others.

This language was the pure Hebrew, or Chaldaic. The first tongue, the mother tongue, spoken by Adam, Shem, and Noah, was different, and it is now extant only in isolated dialects. Its first pure offshoots are the Zend, the sacred tongue of India, and the language of the Bactrians. In those languages, words may be found exactly similar to the Low German of my native place. (emphasis added)
http://www.all-jesus.com/scriptures/bible1-4.htm#1.1.7

Didn't Himmler send SS scientists to India and Tibet to search for Aryans back on the '30s?

Yes, I think they did. Crazy fools.

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:53 pm

Chokmah wrote:This was back in the 18th Century, what about what is happening now... in the 21st Century?

Talk about a certain Rev. Fred Phelps....



Twisted Evil

Ugh. Did you even have to bring up that name. By comparisome he makes the Devil look like a Saint. Twisted Evil

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by TPaine on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:19 pm

warlordofks wrote:
Chokmah wrote:This was back in the 18th Century, what about what is happening now... in the 21st Century?

Talk about a certain Rev. Fred Phelps....

Twisted Evil

Ugh. Did you even have to bring up that name. By comparisome he makes the Devil look like a Saint. Twisted Evil

I hate to break it to you, but the Christian Identity movement makes Fred Phelps look like a Saint. Evil or Very Mad
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=450

The ADL connects at least some of the growing militia movement to the Christian Identity movement.
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Militia_M.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=mm
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:35 am

TPaine wrote:
warlordofks wrote:
Chokmah wrote:This was back in the 18th Century, what about what is happening now... in the 21st Century?

Talk about a certain Rev. Fred Phelps....

Twisted Evil

Ugh. Did you even have to bring up that name. By comparisome he makes the Devil look like a Saint. Twisted Evil

I hate to break it to you, but the Christian Identity movement makes Fred Phelps look like a Saint. Evil or Very Mad
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=450

The ADL connects at least some of the growing militia movement to the Christian Identity movement.
[url=http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Militia_M.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=mm
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Militia_M.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=mm[/quote[/url]]

Oh, you don't need to tell me about that hate movement. My baby brother Michael is a member of it. He joined while he was in prison. Also, every month the Security Company I work for gets a magazine about the latest happenings with all the different hate groups & what they've said or done. Twisted Evil Blow Up

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by TPaine on Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:06 pm

warlordofks wrote:

Oh, you don't need to tell me about that hate movement. My baby brother Michael is a member of it. He joined while he was in prison. Also, every month the Security Company I work for gets a magazine about the latest happenings with all the different hate groups & what they've said or done. Twisted Evil Blow Up
Joining a gang in prison these days is almost a requirement for survival, and as far as I can find out all gangs are based on race and hate. It seems the system is failing and has been for years but no one has any answers. I've always thought that first-time offenders should be put in separate prisons so they can be taught what may help them in rehabilitation rather than receiving a course in being a better criminal taught by lifers.
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Chokmah on Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:34 pm

TPaine wrote:
warlordofks wrote:

Oh, you don't need to tell me about that hate movement. My baby brother Michael is a member of it. He joined while he was in prison. Also, every month the Security Company I work for gets a magazine about the latest happenings with all the different hate groups & what they've said or done. Twisted Evil Blow Up
Joining a gang in prison these days is almost a requirement for survival, and as far as I can find out all gangs are based on race and hate. It seems the system is failing and has been for years but no one has any answers. I've always thought that first-time offenders should be put in separate prisons so they can be taught what may help them in rehabilitation rather than receiving a course in being a better criminal taught by lifers.


Typically, people are put in criminal training schools (ie 'prisons'), where they hone their skills and develop new contacts for when they are thrown back onto the street with a prison record and no funds to buy clothes or pay rent.

Unless a convict has family and friends to help out they are s.o.l. and the only way they can survive is to go back to what they know best.

What a system!
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:45 pm

and don't forget crime is progressive

before they ever make it to a State facility; most have done their undergraduate studies in a county jail
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by TPaine on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:45 pm

Whatever happened to the concept of rehabilitation? Is that too progressive an idea for the 21st century? I've always felt that most people, except for psychopaths, commit crimes because they need money, either for drugs or just to survive. If you have to jail or imprison people, why not use the time to teach them something productive rather than just have them turning big ones into little ones?
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by gillyflower on Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:31 pm

I don't think that is entirely true, TP. In my area, some people seem to commit crimes to impress their peers or because they don't want to go to work.

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Chokmah on Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:45 pm

I have been trying to help a woman who worked for us who has had a drug problem for years. When I talked to the Public Defenders office and told them she has a drug problem and needs treatment they said, "Look, 90% of the people in here (JAIL) have drug or alcohol problems".

So what are they doing in jail? They need treatment. There should be drug farms and treatment facilities. Many of these people have emotional or mental problems and use drugs and alcohol to mask their problems. When I used to have an office down at the beach there would be hobos and bums sleeping on the catwalk ouside my office at night. The police could not see these people from the street.

I got to know some of these bums and almost every one of them were using drugs or alcohol. Most came from broken homes and messed up families and they all seemed to be a few french fries short of a Happy Meal.
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by TPaine on Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:15 pm

Chokmah wrote:I have been trying to help a woman who worked for us who has had a drug problem for years. When I talked to the Public Defenders office and told them she has a drug problem and needs treatment they said, "Look, 90% of the people in here (JAIL) have drug or alcohol problems".

So what are they doing in jail? They need treatment. There should be drug farms and treatment facilities. Many of these people have emotional or mental problems and use drugs and alcohol to mask their problems. When I used to have an office down at the beach there would be hobos and bums sleeping on the catwalk ouside my office at night. The police could not see these people from the street.

I got to know some of these bums and almost every one of them were using drugs or alcohol. Most came from broken homes and messed up families and they all seemed to be a few french fries short of a Happy Meal.
Choke,
We also have the problem of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans with PTSD not receiving proper care, possibly for financial reasons.
WASHINGTON - A Veterans Affairs psychologist denies that she was trying to save money when she suggested that counselors make fewer diagnoses of post-traumatic stress disorder in injured Soldiers. Norma Perez, who helps coordinate a post-traumatic stress disorder clinical team in central Texas, indicated she might have been out of line to cite growing disability claims in her March 20 e-mail titled "Suggestion." She said her intent was simply to remind staffers that stress symptoms could also be adjustment disorder. The less severe diagnosis could save the VA millions of dollars in disability payouts.
http://www.military.com/news/article/va-denies-ptsd-diagnoses-tied-to-costs.html?ESRC=topstories.RSS

Many vets with PTSD wind up like the people you describe: homeless, high on drugs or booze, and stealing for food. We send them to Iraq to fight for Haliburton and KBR, bring them home with serious psychological problems, and tell them to go to hell when they seek help. Evidently, they just aren't worth the damn money it would cost to treat them. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this? Evil or Very Mad
End of rant.
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Daldianus on Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:38 pm

TPaine wrote:Whatever happened to the concept of rehabilitation? Is that too progressive an idea for the 21st century? I've always felt that most people, except for psychopaths, commit crimes because they need money, either for drugs or just to survive. If you have to jail or imprison people, why not use the time to teach them something productive rather than just have them turning big ones into little ones?

Good point. Educate as much as possible, if it still helps and changes the person to the better ... Prison needs to be reformed anyway too!

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Davelaw on Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:46 pm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111843426
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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:01 pm

The waiting lists for learning a trade are sad. These people want to change, want to learn a skill, and aren't able to. That is a shame.

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Re: Blessed be the racists and haters?

Post by Davelaw on Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:14 pm

agreed

I'll give you a personal example from here in Texas as well:

my brother as many here now was originally convicted of murder and given a 40 year sentence

while his case was on appeal, he was housed in a unit where he began classes in restaurant and food service management-he had completed more than half the program; when his appeal was granted

he was then sent back to our county for a new trial and eventually made a deal for manslaughter on a 12 year sentence

he was told he could not go back to his old unit and continue his classes and is now in an entirely different unit starting all over by taking general credit classes
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