Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

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Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by DeavonReye on Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:05 am

The Bible says that a son who "curses his parents" should be put to death. Why is this particular one "sin" an action that warrants the death penalty? Why don't christians obey this when their child is rebellious/cursing them?
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by tmarie64 on Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:24 am

Because we live in DIFFERENT TIMES and only a moron takes the bible literally...

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:37 am

tmarie64 wrote:Because we live in DIFFERENT TIMES and only a moron takes the bible literally...

Tina. I'm starting to fall in love with you in a brotherly fashion.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by DeavonReye on Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:51 am

Agreed!!!

However, many Christians DO take it literal, and the complete word of God, . . and have promised to do all that he [Jesus] has commanded, . . . in order to "be his disciple".
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by tmarie64 on Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:20 pm

No, not "many". You are mistaken, or exaggerating. The ones that do happen to make the headlines because the good side of anything never makes the news.
Look around, you don't see national news covering kids who help build homes... only the ones that shoot up schools. You don't see national news covering the postal worker who develops relationships with the people on his route and will stop and talk with the ones who really NEED someone to listen... only the ones who shoot up their coworkers.
You don't see coverage of the large "dangerous" dog that saves a family from a fire... only the dog that kills or mauls a small child.
Most christians do not take the bible literally, and none of them here, in this forum do.
I cannot explain why anyone else believes the way they do.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by DeavonReye on Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:27 pm

Okay. Smile I'm just going by the area of the country I'm in, . . as well as the religion I have been "in" all my life. They do take it literal, . . . but none of them would actually do what was commanded. . . . and a good thing, too! I just think that those who DO say they take it literally, say that but don't actually DO it. When you get a church full of people who listen to a sermon and have everyone giving a hearty "amen" to what the pastor says, . . . I wonder how many of them actually go out and live it? Not my call, of course. But I'm open enough to say that I definitely do not. I'm not a literalists. Far from it.
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:01 pm

I have to ask at this juncture; what is meant by cursing? Really, it can mean a lot of different things and have a lot of different results.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:53 pm

tmarie64 wrote:No, not "many". You are mistaken, or exaggerating. The ones that do happen to make the headlines because the good side of anything never makes the news.
Look around, you don't see national news covering kids who help build homes... only the ones that shoot up schools. You don't see national news covering the postal worker who develops relationships with the people on his route and will stop and talk with the ones who really NEED someone to listen... only the ones who shoot up their coworkers.
You don't see coverage of the large "dangerous" dog that saves a family from a fire... only the dog that kills or mauls a small child.
Most christians do not take the bible literally, and none of them here, in this forum do.
I cannot explain why anyone else believes the way they do.

i do; but not in the manner presented; but for the record i am an inerrantist and a literalist
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:58 pm

DeavonReye wrote:The Bible says that a son who "curses his parents" should be put to death. Why is this particular one "sin" an action that warrants the death penalty? Why don't christians obey this when their child is rebellious/cursing them?

why because under the Hittite contract mentality that Deuteronomy and parts of Leviticus were patterned after

every Blessing has a corresponding curse

in other words, every positive has a corresponding negative
HONOR your Parents-get long life and dwell in the land
DISHONOR -worthy of death


NOTE-in all of the long recorded History of Israel and later of the Jewish people-there is not one recorded instance of them actually stoning a rebellious drunkard 18 year old son
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:16 pm

This seems to me a rule concocted by aging men and women who are physically past their prime with children who have reached their prime and who are physically much stronger. In the wild, there comes a time when the stronger, younger male challenges and takes over for the aging leader. That is pretty much the norm. So, if you want to upset nature's order you have to come up with a pretty effective threat as well as come up with a reason that elders are worthy of respect not to mention being useful to the group.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by TPaine on Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:40 pm

Davelaw wrote:why because under the Hittite contract mentality that Deuteronomy and parts of Leviticus were patterned after

every Blessing has a corresponding curse

in other words, every positive has a corresponding negative
HONOR your Parents-get long life and dwell in the land
DISHONOR -worthy of death

NOTE-in all of the long recorded History of Israel and later of the Jewish people-there is not one recorded instance of them actually stoning a rebellious drunkard 18 year old son
Dave, are you implying that the Jewish 613 Mitzvot was based on Hittite Law or possibly the Code of Hammurabi, both of which predated it, rather than on the "word of God?" Or did YHVH give the law to those pagan societies? Or could it be that the law is, and always was, man-made?
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:32 pm

nope, I'm specifically saying the the Book of Deuteronomy was written in the style of an ancient contract with "Blessings and Cursings" its stylistic form makes it no less the "Word of God"
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:15 pm

Of course not. Anything at all can be the word of a god if you think it is. It doesn't make it so, it just makes it something that the person thinks, regardless of what the truth may be. The Greeks also thought their gods spoke to them and wrote down the words and stories that had been passed along. They also had the Words of Gods. And that can be so even when the god in question (or the cultural group) borrowed the myths and laws from other groups. And even when the myths have been edited over time. Gods can edit their words too.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by John T Mainer on Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:19 pm

I think it a lovely rule. All families dumb enough to believe that will kill all their progeny (because they will all curse when you have to enforce a rule they don't like), and the species will be freer of the bloodlines of thousands of fanatics.

I admit its hard on the kids, but the next generation will benefit greatly.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:27 pm

it doesn't mean swearing

its more like teenage angst- i curse the day i was born
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:06 am

It means whatever one thinks it means.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by MaineCaptain on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:07 pm

Does that mean you can kill your kids for having angst?

Hormones do some terrible things to the mind. Shame to kill your kids for just growing up

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by John T Mainer on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:42 pm

You have to admit that if certain cultures follow this law of theirs to the letter, the herd as a whole will become vastly more reasonable and intelligent in the space of a couple of generations.

While I wouldn't tell them to do it, if they want to self-cull and select themselves out of existence, then that is between them and Darwin.

Those with the wit to apply their faith with a seasoning of reason would then be better able to make those faiths so burdened with blue laws a much better fit with their societies.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:12 pm

MaineCaptain wrote:Does that mean you can kill your kids for having angst?

Hormones do some terrible things to the mind. Shame to kill your kids for just growing up

1) Hyperbole; why is it forbidden for Deity to use it to show their disapproval of behavior?
2) Does this really sound like hormones?
De 21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:14 pm

gillyflower wrote:It means whatever one thinks it means.

maybe as far as personal belief systems

but not in systematic theology or biblical studies
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:24 pm

John T Mainer wrote:You have to admit that if certain cultures follow this law of theirs to the letter, the herd as a whole will become vastly more reasonable and intelligent in the space of a couple of generations.

While I wouldn't tell them to do it, if they want to self-cull and select themselves out of existence, then that is between them and Darwin.

Those with the wit to apply their faith with a seasoning of reason would then be better able to make those faiths so burdened with blue laws a much better fit with their societies.

to reiterate-the culture that promulgated this-has no record of ever using it
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by John T Mainer on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:38 pm

Davelaw wrote:
John T Mainer wrote:You have to admit that if certain cultures follow this law of theirs to the letter, the herd as a whole will become vastly more reasonable and intelligent in the space of a couple of generations.

While I wouldn't tell them to do it, if they want to self-cull and select themselves out of existence, then that is between them and Darwin.

Those with the wit to apply their faith with a seasoning of reason would then be better able to make those faiths so burdened with blue laws a much better fit with their societies.

to reiterate-the culture that promulgated this-has no record of ever using it

Which means that those choosing to embrace a document as fact that itself historically was never taken by its authors as such are very likely not to be missed from the gene pool if they follow this ridiculous credo. If you killed everybody that Lividicus asked, there would not be enough living to bury the dead. Since the Jewish people still exist, I'm willing to bet their Torah contains very great changes in the law of the people as actually practiced. Why none of this made the cut into the gospels, since many of the rulings were in practice at the time of the first drafting, is a matter I leave to the scholars of the Judeo-Christian faiths.

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by Davelaw on Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:22 pm

even modern Jewish kids are IMO more respectful than kids from the outside culture-maybe its because the kids minded
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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:59 pm

Are you trying to say that all Jewish kids are respectful and mind their parents? Exclamation Shocked

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Re: Why would a "son who curses his parents" be worthy of death?

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:32 pm

Dave sure hasn't met some of the Jewish kids I've known is all I can say.
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