If you ask you will recieve.

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:03 pm

it right there in that dusty old book
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by jumbojava on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:05 pm

Davelaw wrote:all other gods and their followers will be defeated at the end of time
Great.

First they came and took our land.

Then they outlawed our faiths and took our children.

The beat our ways out of us, punished us for speaking our own language or practice our ways.

Now when I'm dead their god will take my soul.


Screw that.
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:06 pm

Davelaw wrote:all other gods and their followers will be defeated at the end of time

LOL talk is cheap but European colonialism seems to be everlasting.

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:07 pm

jumbojava wrote:
Davelaw wrote:all other gods and their followers will be defeated at the end of time
Great.

First they came and took our land.

Then they outlawed our faiths and took our children.

The beat our ways out of us, punished us for speaking our own language or practice our ways.

Now when I'm dead their god will take my soul.


Screw that.

He really does make his god seem unappetizing. Smile

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:08 pm

the word slave came from the word for my people; the Germans and Russians are constantly trying to remake us in their image
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:08 pm

Davelaw wrote:it right there in that dusty old book

Well, some of us don't believe everything we read. Smile

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:08 pm

gillyflower wrote:
jumbojava wrote:
Davelaw wrote:all other gods and their followers will be defeated at the end of time
Great.

First they came and took our land.

Then they outlawed our faiths and took our children.

The beat our ways out of us, punished us for speaking our own language or practice our ways.

Now when I'm dead their god will take my soul.


Screw that.

He really does make his god seem unappetizing. Smile

I'm in a quirky mood.
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:09 pm

gillyflower wrote:
Davelaw wrote:it right there in that dusty old book

Well, some of us don't believe everything we read. Smile

fine, then you need not worry
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:09 pm

I see that!

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by gillyflower on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:10 pm

Eh, I'm up too late. Sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite!

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:10 pm

but are you checking or raising?
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:12 pm

gillyflower wrote:Eh, I'm up too late. Sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite!


don't even go there-I'm just getting over infestation brought over when my second cousin "cleaned" my condo

try to do someone a favor and no good deed goes unpunished
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by jumbojava on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:13 pm

gillyflower wrote:
jumbojava wrote:
Davelaw wrote:all other gods and their followers will be defeated at the end of time
Great.

First they came and took our land.

Then they outlawed our faiths and took our children.

The beat our ways out of us, punished us for speaking our own language or practice our ways.

Now when I'm dead their god will take my soul.


Screw that.

He really does make his god seem unappetizing. Smile
He's just echoing that dusty old book.

**shrugs**
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by MaineCaptain on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:13 pm

gillyflower wrote:
jumbojava wrote:
Davelaw wrote:all other gods and their followers will be defeated at the end of time
Great.

First they came and took our land.

Then they outlawed our faiths and took our children.

The beat our ways out of us, punished us for speaking our own language or practice our ways.

Now when I'm dead their god will take my soul.


Screw that.

He really does make his god seem unappetizing. Smile

I agree Gilly, and I agree with JJ too, Screw that.

No offense intended Dave, but my gods will not be defeated. Your god is fine and wonderful for you, but he is not better or stronger then any other gods. You will perhaps be with him when you go on to the next plane, . But the rest of us will also continue to be in the safe and loving bosom of our gods.


I will bow to no god, especially one that plans to conquer and destroy me or my gods, even knowing he can't, it is not a nice thing to wish to happen.

Would you like someone to say that about your god Dave? Think of how it would sound and feel to you.

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:23 pm

none taken

and they say that and worse

time will tell
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by MaineCaptain on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:28 pm

Also a question. Dave, Why is your god trying to defeat other gods?
My gods are not fighting with your god, Why does your god wish to defeat them?
I would ask this as a separate topic, but I am not sure there are enough people to answer this here yet.

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by jumbojava on Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:44 pm

MaineCaptain wrote:Also a question. Dave, Why is your god trying to defeat other gods?
My gods are not fighting with your god, Why does your god wish to defeat them?
I would ask this as a separate topic, but I am not sure there are enough people to answer this here yet.
Good question.

The god I know does not require bloodshed or any violence whatsoever. Just love unfathomable.

Why the Christian god needs to be the king by destroying peacefull deities and other gods and take thier followers captive and force them to worship him against their will is beyond reason or logic.

It's just plain mean and petty.

Definately NOT a god I would willingly choose to bend a knee to.
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:43 am

obviously, we believe it to be defensive action by non peacefuls trying to destroy harmony
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Davelaw on Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:44 am

Davelaw wrote:obviously, we believe it to be defensive action towards non peacefuls trying to destroy harmony
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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:25 am

Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:
Davelaw wrote:Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

James kjv

Okay so what about all the people who ask and receive not and it doesn't have a thing to do with lusts? The people with dying babies or cancer or who don't have enough food for themselves or their their children or the ones who have no place to sleep or don't have jobs? The ones who ask, not for themselves, but for other worthy people and they don't receive either? The little kids and women who just want to be safe in their own rooms? Why doesn't your god give them what they ask for?

I am not capable of addressing some of the more troubling questions; I know HE knows and cares; but I really don't know why HE allows bad things to happen.


I know I'm starting on this late.... I generally get in to the really good discussions late and have to play catch up, but here's something I believe TED will be more understanding of than most anyone else here. It's really the basics of everything being discussed here. It's the Law of Attraction. After reading the book by Rhonda Byrne, I came to understand positive and negative energy better, which helps me form my thoughts better. In a quote from the book, it says The law of Attraction is the Law of Nature. It is impersonal and does not see good things or bad things. It is receiving your thoughts and is reflecting back to you those thoughts as your life experience. The Law of Attraction simply gives back to you whatever it is you are thinking about.

Now, bottom line is simply this.... as Deavon mentioned earlier when his marriage was breaking up, he went to his god and asked for him to do something. The fact of th matter was, his god actually answered that request. It wasn't what he intended his god to do, but it answered the request in the manner it was sent out to the universe. Again from the book: When you focus your thoughts on something you want, and you hold that focus, you are at that moment summoning what you want with the mightiest power in the universe. The law of Attraction doesn't compute “don’t” or “not” or “no” or any other words of negation.

The book goes on to give some pretty clear examples too. As you speak words of negation, this is what the Law of Attraction is receiving:

I don’t want to spill something on this outfit.
I want to spill something on this outfit, and I want to spill more things.

I don’t want a bad haircut
I want bad haircuts

I don’t want to be delayed
I want delays

I can’t handle all of this work.
I want more work than I can handle



How we handle finances, (do we attract wealth, or always struggle to make ends meet); how we handle attracting that perfect match or how we remain in good health verses continually fighting disease all comes from within…. It is manifested by us, and the universe has no other choice but to give us what we request.

It isn’t a matter of the cosmos (or gods, if you will) saying no, it’s a matter of how the thoughts are formed to begin with. Most requests come from out of desperation, IMO. Rather than taking action ourselves, we get into the state of feeling as if we’re painted into a corner and need divine intervention, and out of that desperation comes our “prayers”. The problem is that by the time we form those prayers and send them out, we are in such a state of flux that the come out all wrong, and negative, so what we get for an answer is exactly what we send out to the cosmos. A tangle of negative energy, and it simply comes back to us.

The Christian bible says “If you ask for it, believe you have received it. In other religions, the idea is much the same even if the verbiage is different in form or style. In the case of finding that perfect match, you send out the attributes of what you want in a mate and act as if that perfect person is knocking at your door. In the case of health, you speak of how healthy you are, and not the fear of catching some dreaded disease. In the case of finances, speak as if you are already spending the shower of wealth in your checking account; not fretting over how you’re going to keep the utilities on. When you hear Christians talk about the blessings they always seem to have, it’s because they understand intuitively the concept of “believing you’ve already received” They seem to have the upper hand out of all of the various religious beliefs out there in that matter. It’s something we could learn from the Christians on, and practice it in our lives. And no….. it doesn’t mean we must embrace the Christian god to do so. This aspect is what Dee and I have so many disagreements on. It’s a universal truth, not a uniquely Christian one.

The reason why so many requests sent out to the cosmos seem not to be answered isn’t a matter of faith, but more a matter of how we form those requests to begin with. It isn’t a matter of any one particular god loving this one individual more than another, or even allowing bad things to happen. Those bad things that happen come from our own thoughts, not that of the divinity or the universe. That’s why it seems that some bad things happen to some people.

Now in cases where we are talking about the manipulation of free will, there is another universal truth….. You can’t. Well actually you can, but the after effects can be devastating. All requests need to be sent in such a way that you do not impact the lives of others. In other words, you can’t ask for something that could cause harm to another, or force them to your will. In the case of the soul mate, it isn’t so much about lust as it is forcing a thought on another person. The best example I can come up with is where I have an attraction to a specific person, and ask the universe to send me that specific person, rather than the attributes I desire in a person without using a specific name to go with it. That would be taking away their free will, and in the strongest sense of the definition, depriving them of their free will to choose.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now....... Embarassed

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:59 am

I just don't believe that John. I don't believe we "ask" for everything that comes to us. I think random things do happen to people for no good reason. They just happen to catch it that time, so to speak, be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't believe that we are responsible for all the bad things that happen to us, that we attract it or ask for it with our thoughts. If you truly believe that, then you believe that the people who have cancer asked for it and if they truly believed that they could have a miracle, they would have it. I don't believe that if you can only stay positive, only positive things will happen to you. This has not been my experience in life. I do believe that a positive attitude helps you survive this life a little better and helps you focus on the good things that happen to everyone instead of the bad things, that also happen to everyone. Also, if you anticipate all the time the bad things that might happen to you, you ruin this moment we have. If you stay in the moment and enjoy it, it's been my experience that is a good thing.

On the other hand, I do believe our wills are powerful. We can help manifest that will in the universe.

Ed. to add: I think that it does people a disservice to shift the responsibility for why you get a bad thing happening, to the person. But I also think a Christian headset of having everything laid at a god's door is not realistic either. Both bad and good things are going to happen to everyone in this world. That is life.

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by gillyflower on Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:21 am

You know you could use the same argument for us all being presentient. We subconsciously KNOW we are going to get a bad hair cut and then we get it. You could make the claim that it isn't that we attract the bad hair cut by thinking about it. We get the bad hair cut that we knew we were going to get.

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:04 am

Of course, it's no secret, but as John said I would agree. When I first got into New Thought, I was a bit skeptical of the Law of Attraction. The more I studied and observed, though, the more I realized how very real it was. Nothing is an accident, nothing is chance, nothing is random, and nothing 'just happens'. All effects are the result of a cause, it's just the way the universe is. Some things aren't 'energy' while some things are 'mundane', everything is energy and everything every minute of every day is a reality created by energy, whether for better or for worse. The benefit (IMO) of New Thought, or at least the biggest, is realizing that then using it to one's advantage, rather than to one's disadvantage as the general population does. The LoA is not a popular view, and when I was 5, neither was the idea that I couldn't live on chocolate and ice cream and had to eat vegetables.

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:06 am

gillyflower wrote:I just don't believe that John. I don't believe we "ask" for everything that comes to us.

And actually Gilly, neither do I, (at least not in the sense I’m getting from your post.) But then I don’t ask for much from the divine either. But I do believe our attitude carries a lot of weight in the matter. I don’t go around stressing over things I have the capacity to deal with, and use this Law of Attraction idea for the tough times when I do get boxed into a corner. Yes, it’s a crutch for me, but then so are prayers of petition for the Christian. I expect good things to happen to me, and unless I have framed the thought out all wrong, it generally does happen, and happens even better than I had thought the process out in my mind.

gillyflower wrote:I think random things do happen to people for no good reason. They just happen to catch it that time, so to speak, be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I won’t argue this to any length, except to say I have worked this thought through myself, and have come to the conclusion that even if certain wheels are set into motion, we subconsciously are aware of it, and with the right mental framework we can act to avoid it. Some call it intuition. It’s that sixth sense that helps us avoid disaster; like the person who cancels a flight at the boarding gate because he or she feels dread upon boarding later to learn that the air plane crashed on take off. There is a book called The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker that deal with develloping this inner sense, and using it to our advantage. I stumbled upon it while I was in the police accademy, and have used it in my work. I don’t know any other way to explain it…. Maybe TED does.

gillyflower wrote:I don't believe that we are responsible for all the bad things that happen to us, that we attract it or ask for it with our thoughts. If you truly believe that, then you believe that the people who have cancer asked for it and if they truly believed that they could have a miracle, they would have it.

All I can give to you for an answer is what has happened to me in my experience, and let you work it out in your mind from there. My dad was afraid of doctors. It was an irrational fear….. morbid. He claimed that all they would do is tell him he had cancer or something and he was going to die. When I was stationed in Ft Bliss, way back in the early 80’s, long before I met Dee, my parents would come and visit. Dad was always robust. The regular out doors guy. He could have been the cover figure of Field and Stream. Each time he came, he wanted to go into the mountains around El Paso and walk in them. On one of the last visits he and mom made there, he would get winded very easily. Now he smoked, and had smoked Lucky Strike cigarettes since before I was born, and this was a new event. He simply shrugged it off as “old age” creeping up on him. As he grew older, every winter he’d get a bout with pneumonia, bronchitis or something to do with his chest and lungs. If anyone suggested going to a doctor, he’d fly into a rage that would make my melt downs on Belief net look mild (I inherited that temper from him, dammit). After I came home in 86, he got sick again and I tricked him into going to the doctor. To make a long story short, he did in fact have cancer. Oh, it was caught early enough, and with surgery, he’d have come out of this just fine. He was in perfect health otherwise. He simply gave up…. There’s no other way to say it, and in August 1988, we buried him. He had all of these years of sending out this negative aspect to the cosmos, and it finally came home to roost. So in that regard, yes, he asked for it. Doctors will tell you that mental outlook has a lot to do with recovery from disease. In my mind, this Law is nothing more than harnessing that energy.

gillyflower wrote: I don't believe that if you can only stay positive, only positive things will happen to you. This has not been my experience in life. I do believe that a positive attitude helps you survive this life a little better and helps you focus on the good things that happen to everyone instead of the bad things, that also happen to everyone. Also, if you anticipate all the time the bad things that might happen to you, you ruin this moment we have. If you stay in the moment and enjoy it, it's been my experience that is a good thing.

Then what you’re saying is you agree with me. Stuff happens. How we deal with it is what makes or breaks. Yes, there will always be that “tourist” putting along when you are driving to an appointment. For that reason, I try to leave an hour ahead of my scheduled times so that if something happens, I can deal with it rationally and calmly, rather than getting frustrated and having it ruin my day. And at the end of the day, our bodies will betray that positive mind set, and we will surely die. But that is just the order of life. Remaining positively focused may not avoid the bad stuff, but it won’t make it any worse when it comes about. It’ll merely be a bump in the road.

gillyflower wrote:On the other hand, I do believe our wills are powerful. We can help manifest that will in the universe.

What I said?!!!! Laughing

gillyflower wrote:Ed. to add: I think that it does people a disservice to shift the responsibility for why you get a bad thing happening, to the person. But I also think a Christian headset of having everything laid at a god's door is not realistic either. Both bad and good things are going to happen to everyone in this world. That is life.

We agree in principle on more than we disagree, Gilly. And that’s a positive too, isn’t it?


Last edited by John A. Cancienne on Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: If you ask you will recieve.

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:11 am

gillyflower wrote:You know you could use the same argument for us all being presentient. We subconsciously KNOW we are going to get a bad hair cut and then we get it. You could make the claim that it isn't that we attract the bad hair cut by thinking about it. We get the bad hair cut that we knew we were going to get.

A lot could be that if it's a barber or beautician we're using the first time, we look at the person and either consciously or subconsciously dislike the person on first sight. This sets the wheels into motion. Or the person could be like my barber. Getting a bad haircut was routine and I had come to just accepting it as this was the way it was going to be, because I like the fellow. He had prostrate cancer, and since then he's given the best haircuts I've ever gotten from him. But then when I went there and found out he'd been sick, my focus turned away from a bad haircut and toward his recovery. (shrugs) who the hell knows? Rolling Eyes

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