Quakers to allow gay marriage

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Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:47 am

One of the UK’s oldest Christian denominations – the Quakers – looks set to extend marriage services to same-sex couples at their yearly meeting later.

The society has already held religious blessings for same-sex couples who have had a civil partnership ceremony.

But agreeing to perform gay marriages, which are currently not allowed under civil law, could bring the Quakers into conflict with the government.

The issue of active homosexuality has bitterly divided Churches.

But the BBC’s religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott said the Quakers had been more prepared than other groups to reinterpret the Bible in the light of contemporary life.

Religious commitment

The Quakers – also known as The Religious Society of Friends – are likely to reach consensus on the issue of gay marriage without a vote at their annual gathering in York on Friday.

They will also formally ask the government to change the law to allow gay people to marry.

Quaker registrars, like rabbis and Church of England priests, have the authority to marry heterosexual couples on behalf of the state.

But many British Quakers feel it is wrong to exclude a religious commitment from civil partnerships and want the right to marriage extended to same-sex couples too.

The Quakers has welcomed same-sex unions for more than two decades, allowing local groups to celebrate same-sex commitments through special acts of worship.

But within Britain’s Christian community more widely, the issue of homosexuality has caused major confrontations.

Most recently, the Bishop of Rochester, the Right Reverend Michael Nazir-Ali, told a newspaper that homosexuals should “repent and be changed”.

I didn't know the Quakers were that liberal ...

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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:52 am

Some of them are. That's pretty cool!

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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:52 am

To add: The Shakers were the fundamentalist ones who weren't allowed to reproduce.

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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by MaineCaptain on Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:41 am

I studied Shakers a few years ago I like them, as far as the studying went the way they treated each other.
Everyone seems to have been equal. Granted they were celibate But men and women both did everything. there was no "women's" work.

And the few they interviewed seemed like really lovely people (granted very old) there are not a lot of them left. I liked the the idea. Granted not for everyone but with the exception of possible objection to the (celibate part) they seemed to live a healthy caring life.

What struck me was the way the planted and harvested the crops.
They would harvest for them selves and leave the rest for the poor and the birds.

It does not surprise me the branch of religion they broke off from is becoming more tolerant and caring towards others.


They were also quite inventive. making and inventing things that were nice and usable. We still today love their style of furniture. Shaker furniture

Good for the Quakers!

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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:45 pm

Celsus wrote:
I didn't know the Quakers were that liberal ...

Oh, yeah...they're only slightly less so on social issues than Unitarian Universalists.

The primary difference between the two groups is that Quakers are still quite Christian whereas UU's support each person's determining spiritual/religious truth for hirself, even to being openly atheist or agnostic if that's what appears to be true.
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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by Beribee on Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:56 pm

MaineCaptain wrote:I studied Shakers a few years ago I like them, as far as the studying went the way they treated each other.
Everyone seems to have been equal. Granted they were celibate But men and women both did everything. there was no "women's" work.

And the few they interviewed seemed like really lovely people (granted very old) there are not a lot of them left. I liked the the idea. Granted not for everyone but with the exception of possible objection to the (celibate part) they seemed to live a healthy caring life.

What struck me was the way the planted and harvested the crops.
They would harvest for them selves and leave the rest for the poor and the birds.

It does not surprise me the branch of religion they broke off from is becoming more tolerant and caring towards others.


They were also quite inventive. making and inventing things that were nice and usable. We still today love their style of furniture. Shaker furniture

Good for the Quakers!

I've studied them a little, as well. The biggest reason their numbers started dropping off was because a law was passed stating that an orphan should be placed with a family/institution of the same religion. Since most new members were adopted, this pretty much stopped their expansion in its tracks. Kind of sad, since they had so much to offer. It's amazing some of the stuff they have invented.

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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by MaineCaptain on Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:01 pm

That is sad, because I do think they were and honourable people with admirable beliefs. No one is perfect, but I do think they were good people. I think an orphan would do well growing up in Shaker system.

I do remember they were not held prisoner and were quite free to leave when they turn legal age.

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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by Beautiful_Dreamer on Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:21 am

It's good to hear of another Christian group joining the ranks of the 'evolved'. Hopefully more will follow.
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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by gillyflower on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:25 am

I can't see how they won't. If you look at the last few hundred years of history, at least in the western nations, you will see the social evolution, how an idea, such as equality for women, is introduced, it spreads, is bitterly disputed, followed by acceptance by more and more groups, legislated, even more bitterly opposed, and finally after another generation or so dies off, few remember what the fuss was about. I mean, now it seem ridiculous, doesn't it, that women couldn't have the same rights as men? And that happened how long ago?

There are always going to be holdouts, of course.

The recent news has made me think that the GOP are like dinosaurs in that they are already well on their way to extinction. They are attempting to hold back the world and ideas from changing and evolving, something they cannot do. They'll be in the history books, and their progeny will read about the bitter disputes and excesses and wonder why on earth they didn't want other people to have the same rights they did. That's what this fight and the health care fight is all about; extending the same baisc rights to all of us.

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Re: Quakers to allow gay marriage

Post by TPaine on Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:51 pm

gillyflower wrote:I can't see how they won't. If you look at the last few hundred years of history, at least in the western nations, you will see the social evolution, how an idea, such as equality for women, is introduced, it spreads, is bitterly disputed, followed by acceptance by more and more groups, legislated, even more bitterly opposed, and finally after another generation or so dies off, few remember what the fuss was about. I mean, now it seem ridiculous, doesn't it, that women couldn't have the same rights as men? And that happened how long ago?

There are always going to be holdouts, of course.

The recent news has made me think that the GOP are like dinosaurs in that they are already well on their way to extinction. They are attempting to hold back the world and ideas from changing and evolving, something they cannot do. They'll be in the history books, and their progeny will read about the bitter disputes and excesses and wonder why on earth they didn't want other people to have the same rights they did. That's what this fight and the health care fight is all about; extending the same baisc rights to all of us.

Many current New Testament scholars understand that women were especially important in the early Christian church. In fact they traveled with Jesus and used their finances to provide for his needs.
(Luke 8:1-3)
1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
Paul, in Romans 16 certainly seems to be finding women equal to men in the greetings he is sending at the end of the book:
1I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant[a] of the church in Cenchrea. 2I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me. 3Greet Priscilla[b] and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus. 4They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. 5Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia. 6Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you. 7Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. 8Greet Ampliatus, whom I love in the Lord. 9Greet Urbanus, our fellow worker in Christ, and my dear friend Stachys. 10Greet Apelles, tested and approved in Christ. Greet those who belong to the household of Aristobulus. 11Greet Herodion, my relative. Greet those in the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord. 12Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord. 13Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too. 14Greet Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermes, Patrobas, Hermas and the brothers with them. 15Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas and all the saints with them. 16Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings.
Given this, how then can Paul say the following in 1 Corinthians 14
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?
The answer is, Paul didn't say it. It was added by scribes sometime in the second century long after the death of Paul. It was written by chauvinistic men who were trying to cement their power in the church and society by relegating women to a lower class. The two verses in 1 Corinthians have been found in some Greek and Latin editions not following verse 33, but following verse 40. The message also sounds like the message found in 1 Timothy 2:11-15
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Footnotes:

a 1. 1 Timothy 2:15 Greek she
b 2. 1 Timothy 2:15 Or restored
[All quotes from NIV]
While this letter is historically credited to Paul, most modern experts believe it was written in the second century CE, long after Pauls' death.
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