controversial or enlightening?

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controversial or enlightening?

Post by Nay_ho_tze on Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:59 pm

While I personally believe the following is exceedingly profound,
as a half-breed Choctaw, pre-Vatican II cradle Catholic,
raised and educated by the venerable Sisters of St Joseph
(whose rule dates back to 1600's France),
I nevertheless got in big trouble
for posting it on the Catholicism board at that "other" site --
I'm curious about reactions to it here...

NHT


Meditation on The Lord’s Prayer
- from the Holy Rosary Bulletin


I cannot say, Our
if my religion has no room for others and their needs.
I cannot say, Father
if I do not demonstrate this relationship in my daily living.
I cannot say, Who art in Heaven
if all my interests and pursuits are in earthly origins.
I cannot say, Hallowed be Thy Name
if I, who am called by His name, am not holy.
I cannot say, Thy kingdom come
if I am unwilling to give up my own sovereignty and accept the righteous reign of God.
I cannot say, Thy will be done
if I am unwilling or resentful of having it in my life.
I cannot say, on Earth as it is in Heaven
unless I am truly ready to give myself to His service.
I cannot say, Give us this day our daily bread
without expending honest effort for it, or ignoring the genuine needs of my neighbours.
I cannot say, Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us
if I continue to harbour a grudge against anyone.
I cannot say, Lead us not into temptation
if I deliberately choose to remain in a situation where I am likely to be in temptation.
I cannot say, but deliver us from evil
if I am not prepared to fight in the spiritual realm with the weapons of word and prayer.
I cannot say, for Thine is the kingdom
if I fear what my neighbours may say or do.
I cannot say, and the glory
if I first seek my own glory.
I cannot say and the power
if in my heart, I fear that power represents.
I cannot say, forever and ever.
if I am anxious about this day’s affairs.
I cannot say, Amen
unless I honestly believe, “Cost what it may, this is my prayer.”

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by Ken on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:16 pm

How did you get in trouble for that?
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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by DotNotInOz on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:37 pm

Ken wrote:How did you get in trouble for that?

Ya got me wondering this very thing myself.

What kind of people are claiming to be Catholics these days if THAT was somehow unacceptable? Sounds entirely consistent with Ye Olde Party Line as I recall it from the pre-V2 era.
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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by tmarie64 on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:48 pm

How did Nay get in trouble?
Well... because "that" place is FULL of pinheads and bigots.
Y'all know that or you would still be "there" and this place wouldn't exist.



OMG! Is Pooh smokin' a doobie!?!!!!? Very cool, Dot.

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by MaineCaptain on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:56 pm

TMarie, you right thats what it looks like Pooh is smokin' Hysterical

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by tmarie64 on Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:25 pm

Glad I'm not the only one who sees that. It's great! LoLFlag

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:39 pm

Dot always was a troublemaker. NahNah

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by tmarie64 on Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:44 pm

I've gained a whole new respect for her!

Pooh is a toker! Angel

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:34 am

sacrificialgoddess wrote:Dot always was a troublemaker. NahNah

::::: points to self with carefully crafted innocent look :::: Who, widdo me?

tmarie64 wrote:I've gained a whole new respect for her!

Pooh is a toker! Angel

Aw, gee...I've been appreciated. Shucks!

Took y'all long enough to notice. I've only been using this avatar for about a month.

See what your expectation that anything Disney is entirely innocent can do to your perceptions? ImWithStupid
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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:46 am

Nay_ho_tze wrote:While I personally believe the following is exceedingly profound,
as a half-breed Choctaw, pre-Vatican II cradle Catholic,
raised and educated by the venerable Sisters of St Joseph
(whose rule dates back to 1600's France),
I nevertheless got in big trouble
for posting it on the Catholicism board at that "other" site --

Back to the topic, what were the objections to it? I truly can't imagine unless all that non-procreative sex today's American Catholic is having because they've long been popping birth control pills has addled their brains.

If I slip into "Catholic mind" for a moment, I agree with you that it's a quite lovely interpretation of the relevance of the Our Father.

[OW! That hurts. Enough Catholic mind. It pinches!]
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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by Nay_ho_tze on Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:22 am

First of all - Pooh, I had no idea!!
Although I never appreciated Pooh's relevance before,
my eyes have now been opened!
So is he just gonna bogart that thing?
*LOL*

As to the topic and questions, here's what happened ...
Not only was I reprimanded
but also outright banned from the Catholic forum --
naturally the entire thread was removed.

Since I'm a mod, I inquired behind the scenes
and was told a whitewash story about that mod being a convert, etc., etc.
Okay ...
I wasn't appeased,
but I resisted questioning why a convert was moderating that board,
having ultimately figured that the mod just probably felt threatned...

On a really deep level, though, the whole thing reminded me
of a priest I'd worked with once,
also a convert, a fact he took great pride in flaunting...
(did you know, dot, that converts can now be ordained??)

Anyway, as a layman, this guy was an ass...
as a priest, he was horrifically inexcusable ...
again, I was 'in the engine room' so to speak,
(being a liturgist as well as director of the altar servers),
and as such witnessed this man blatantly tell two opposing stories,
to two different parishioners
in response to the same question ...
(I guess he forgot I was standing there both times...)
I saw him take financial aid from kids attending Catholic school
to put a refrigerator in the sacristy to keep the sacrificial wine cool...
I saw him have a chain link fence erected around the rectory,
to keep his mother's dog 'safe.'
(she lived with him and pulled a salary, to boot)
I could go on, but I won't...

I am so grateful to my teachers
from whom I learned the esoteric teachings of the Church,
rather than only the dogma ...
long before I'd ever met this converted priest,
when I was just a child,
my teachers (the Sisters of St. Joseph) foresaw a time when
"being in balance with God would mean going against the priests."
At the time I was in shock to think such a thing could happen...
looking back, I am utterly sickened
to have witnessed their prophecy come true.

They were wise indeed,
their teachings having fully prepared me for the medicine path
that I now walk.

Anyway, sorry to vent ...
the episode over this particular posting at the 'other' site
has bothered me for a very long time.

And your responses have totally eradicated my angst.

Thank you, one and all.

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:56 pm

So, were you ever told precisely what this convert-mod's objections to this were?

I'm still baffled how any Catholic who knows squat about the dogma and theological underpinnings (and therein may be the clue) could possibly object.

But then, as you and I've often commiserated, we grew up back when a Catholic was a Catholic and not a "Catholic-lite." I've encountered the latter who don't even know that there's a difference between the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed for Christ's sake!!
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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by tmarie64 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:24 pm

Oooohhhh!!! I'm not a convert! I'm a cradle Catholic... something everyone there knows.
I should repost it as "Something that made me stop and think"... LOL
Wonder how long it would take to get it pulled down.

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by DotNotInOz on Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:43 am

Go for it, Tina. I'd say you're just the woman for the job. cheers
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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:25 am

So, I've never been Catholic. Are they objecting because someone is being honest with themselves? Is it really that important to toe the party line that they prefer dishonesty to honesty? Suspect






Okay, if I am honest, that sound exactly like the very protestant church I grew up in. NahNah

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by Chokmah on Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:43 am

It must have been some powers that be on the site you were on, there is nothing offensive to Catholic sensibilities in your prayer.
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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by Nay_ho_tze on Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:57 pm

Dot - No, I never received a precise reason ...
And btw, not knowing the difference
between the Nicene Creed and the Apostle's Creed?
Yowzers - that's just sad.

TMarie - I don't know you well
but I'm guessing you have a bit of the devil inside you?
Don't get me wrong -
rocking the boat is a necessary facet of life, IMO ...
it wakes people up ...
so, you go, girl!!
*lol*

SacrificialGoddess writes: ...they prefer dishonesty to honesty?
Not according to what I was taught...
I will say, in my many thousands of miles driven around the nation,
I noticed that the Church's teachings get further and further
misconstrued and watered down
the further away one travels from the Northeast ...
keep in mind, as a native Bostonian,
I grew up believing that the whole world was Catholic,
because in my youthful experience, it was...
(New England is something like 93% Catholic)
My guess is that quite simply
that particular mod knew nothing about Catholicism ...

Chokmah writes: ...there is nothing offensive
to Catholic sensibilities in your prayer.

Yes, I agree totally which is the reason I posted it ...
I was quite unprepared for the stir it caused...

-NHT

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Re: controversial or enlightening?

Post by tmarie64 on Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:59 pm

NHT... If you really wanna see some boat rocking, check bnet's catholic boards. I don't post there very often but when I do.... They are happy when I get bored and go away. LOL

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