Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:29 am

I heard Yahweh too. He wished me well when I left Christianity.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:30 am

thats fine for you
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:31 am

Davelaw wrote:logic is not absolute

you really need some theoretical physics under your belt

I'm not talking about physics (I guess your making a lame reference to quantum physics?), I'm talking about the logic related to REASONING. Can you give an example where such logic wouldn't be absolute?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:31 am

Davelaw wrote:
Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:that you can't hear a voice in someone mind; does not make the voice less real

true. but that doesn't make the voice the voice of God ...

are you hearing voices in your mind, Dave?

I have heard the voice of God before; but more often from reading scripture

you forgot this question: are you hearing God's voice in your mind, Dave?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:37 am

I think it should be phrased "Is your mind hearing God's voice?"

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:37 am

Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:logic is not absolute

you really need some theoretical physics under your belt

I'm not talking about physics (I guess your making a lame reference to quantum physics?), I'm talking about the logic related to REASONING. Can you give an example where such logic wouldn't be absolute?


logic originated in one universe may not apply to another

logic is not the end all and be all


sometimes intution trumps reason/ sometimes Revelation trumps reason

Can you give an example where such logic wouldn't be absolute?

GIGO would be the obvious example-bad or absent data leads to poor reasoning-if you are in movie theater -logic may not tell you that the room next door is on fire; but revelation-someone yelling fire may do just that

if you stayed until you reached the right conclusion through reasoning you might be dead
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:38 am

gillyflower wrote:I think it should be phrased "Is your mind hearing God's voice?"

not at the moment -LOL
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:39 am

In my experience of such things, it does not feel like one is having a party, so to speak, within one's mind. But the mind is engaged with something that feels like it is outside of it.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:43 am

Davelaw wrote:I have heard the voice of God before; but more often from reading scripture

So God spoke to you, personally, aside from reading the Bible?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:44 am

Davelaw wrote:logic originated in one universe may not apply to another

logic is not the end all and be all

So in some other universe 2+2 could actually be 5?

sometimes intution trumps reason/ sometimes Revelation trumps reason

Do you have any evidence for actual 'revelation' from a divine being?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:47 am

other than the Revelation itself? no

and yes, as long as the logic was internally consitent for that universe- 2 + 2 could equal whatever
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:58 am

Davelaw wrote:other than the Revelation itself? no

and yes, as long as the logic was internally consitent for that universe- 2 + 2 could equal whatever

How could that be possible? How could, even in some other universe, two actual objects and another two such objects equal to five such objects? that's impossible.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:02 am

Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:other than the Revelation itself? no

and yes, as long as the logic was internally consitent for that universe- 2 + 2 could equal whatever

How could that be possible? How could, even in some other universe, two actual objects and another two such objects equal to five such objects? that's impossible.


thats where our communication breaks down
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:02 am

Davelaw wrote:
Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:other than the Revelation itself? no

and yes, as long as the logic was internally consitent for that universe- 2 + 2 could equal whatever

How could that be possible? How could, even in some other universe, two actual objects and another two such objects equal to five such objects? that's impossible.


thats where our communication breaks down

so you are SERIOUSLY implying that in some universe 2 objects plus 2 objects could result in actually 5 objects? seriously??

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:05 am

Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:I think it should be phrased "Is your mind hearing God's voice?"

not at the moment -LOL

LMAO!

I'm envious of ya'll hearing Yahweh, I would have settled for a 'kiss my ass' if nothing else. Wink

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:05 am

not just impying it

stating it outright
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:06 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:
Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:I think it should be phrased "Is your mind hearing God's voice?"

not at the moment -LOL

LMAO!

I'm envious of ya'll hearing Yahweh, I would have settled for a 'kiss my ass' if nothing else. Wink


theres still plenty of time
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:10 am

Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:
Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:other than the Revelation itself? no

and yes, as long as the logic was internally consitent for that universe- 2 + 2 could equal whatever

How could that be possible? How could, even in some other universe, two actual objects and another two such objects equal to five such objects? that's impossible.


thats where our communication breaks down

so you are SERIOUSLY implying that in some universe 2 objects plus 2 objects could result in actually 5 objects? seriously??

Hmmm... I have to say, not to throw the thread anymore than it already is, but as a quasi-science fiction fan, why not? There could be quantum differences from one Universe to the next, and scientists have speculated that for instance time could run in reverse in some planes- that is, reverse to what we know, which would be forward to them. If you've never read A Wrinkle in Time by L'Engle, you must (my favorite book as a child). Mrs. Who, Mrs. Whatsit and Mrs. Which take the children (by mistake) to a two-dimensional plane where they feel like they're being painfully pressed to death with steamrollers and then realize their mistake, that earth children aren't as flexible dimension-wise as they are. Different concepts, yes, but just saying what seems impossible/improbable in one dimension or plane of existence may be totally rational in another.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:13 am

bye for now-they are shutting my water off in an hour-and i need a shower
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:21 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:
Davelaw wrote:
gillyflower wrote:I think it should be phrased "Is your mind hearing God's voice?"

not at the moment -LOL

LMAO!

I'm envious of ya'll hearing Yahweh, I would have settled for a 'kiss my ass' if nothing else. Wink

I think that is why a lot of people have left Christianity. Or really that is why I did. I am not satisfied with having a book in my life and see no point in it. I wanted Gods that loved me enough to interact with me on a regular basis, and Yahweh was unwilling or incapable - I didn't know which - of doing that. I left in order to find Gods that would and I found them or rather they found me after I left Christianity. I told Yahweh why I was leaving and that was I think the only time I could actually say he spoke to me (aside from warm feelings sitting in a pew). It was a big surprise. He didn't encourage me to stay and instead wished me well, and it felt like he was a little relieved that I was going. I think we both knew he couldn't give me what I wanted and needed. I feel very happy for the people who do get what they want from him but I can't help but thinking that a lot of Christians have settled for a warm feeling once in a while and a book. That's okay if that is satisfying to them.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:25 am

Davelaw wrote:not just impying it

stating it outright

but how would that be possible? how could, in ANY universe, adding TWO objects with TWO more objects result in having FIVE objects? that could never be true.


Last edited by Celsus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:26 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:26 am

I'm sure, IMO, that I blocked out a lot of potential for communication along those lines because I have such personal issues wih Yahweh, at least as represented.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:27 am

Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:not just impying it

stating it outright

but how would that be possible? how could, in ANY universe, adding TWO objects with TWO more objects result in having FIVE objects? that could never be true.

Ah, but Sheroume, you're thinking in terms of our Universe! Very Happy You have to think outside the box in another.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:33 am

Anything is possible. Look at the universe of imagination.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:48 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:Ah, but Sheroume, you're thinking in terms of our Universe! Very Happy You have to think outside the box in another.

Seriously, I don't get this. It is IMPOSSIBLE for ANY universe to have 2+2=5 to be true. Impossible.

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