Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by DeavonReye on Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:25 pm

I've been doing that for a while now, Dave, . . . . . . gets harder everyday. Good luck!
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:30 pm

Davelaw wrote:my belief system predates me- i have bought into the the belief system of my parents, community and their ancestors i may relationize on the edges to make it more palatable to me-but i'm not going to divorce myslef from the community around me- so I have accepted that which came before even though i can NOT explain all of it or even justify all of it

So you simply accept the tradition as truth even though nobody can explain the tradition rationally and logically?

And the tradition is true because ... it's the tradition??

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:34 pm

its true because it provides meaning and continuinity for family and community
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:35 pm

Davelaw wrote:its true because it provides meaning and continuinity for family and community

but then lots of religions are true, in that sense. are you ok with that?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:36 pm

sure
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:04 pm

Davelaw wrote:sure

Ok, cool.

Even though your religion claims to be the only true one?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:48 pm

You two kill me. Laughing

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:53 pm

every religion is the only true one
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by DeavonReye on Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:59 pm

Dave, that statement doesnt sound like the doctrine of the evangelical. confused
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:05 pm

DeavonReye wrote:Dave, that statement doesnt sound like the doctrine of the evangelical. confused

I think Dave means that Christianity isn't exclusive in claiming its the only true faith.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:09 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:You two kill me. Laughing

You're welcome Wink

I like 'debating' illogical stuff like this, it's amusingly absurd Laughing

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:11 pm

Davelaw wrote:every religion is the only true one

you said that your religion was true because it helped your community and yourself.

every believer from every religion could make the same claim.

is his religion therefore true too?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:13 pm

to them it is; it certainly isn't true for me
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:16 pm

Davelaw wrote:to them it is; it certainly isn't true for me

but I'm not interested in subjective truths!

yes, you think that your religion is true, just as Ahmed thinks that his religion is true.

so?

does that tell us something about the actual veracity of the religion? of course not.

both could be, and surely are, not The Truth.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:18 pm

Davelaw wrote:to them it is; it certainly isn't true for me

Let's get back on topic though: so you admit that you can't logically and rationally explain important parts of your religion?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:21 pm

Both surely are; whether you are interested in subjective truths or not.

The truths are both mutually exclusive and true.
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:22 pm

Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:to them it is; it certainly isn't true for me

Let's get back on topic though: so you admit that you can't logically and rationally explain important parts of your religion?

ITS the Nature of religion that important parts must be taken on faith
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:24 pm

Davelaw wrote:
Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:to them it is; it certainly isn't true for me

Let's get back on topic though: so you admit that you can't logically and rationally explain important parts of your religion?

ITS the Nature of religion that important parts must be taken on faith

Funny how those seem to be the parts that make no logical sense whatsoever, thus falling into that catchall of "Just have faith."

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:26 pm

there will always be those parts

economics and theoretical physics work in much the same- we call the unexplained parts the black box theory
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:28 pm

Davelaw wrote:
Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:to them it is; it certainly isn't true for me

Let's get back on topic though: so you admit that you can't logically and rationally explain important parts of your religion?

ITS the Nature of religion that important parts must be taken on faith

but why do these important parts have to be irrational and illogical?

or isn't the 'faith argument' rather used to excuse the irrationality and illogic in a desperate attempt to keep the belief system from imploding?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:29 pm

Davelaw wrote:there will always be those parts

economics and theoretical physics work in much the same- we call the unexplained parts the black box theory

neither of those claim to represent The Truth, do they?

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:30 pm

doubtful, belief seems to just fine self-perpetuation no matter the state of science or knowledge-look at the rise of astrology and the belief in the paranormal in post-modern society
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:31 pm

Celsus wrote:
Davelaw wrote:there will always be those parts

economics and theoretical physics work in much the same- we call the unexplained parts the black box theory

neither of those claim to represent The Truth, do they?

from where I sit; they both do
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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Daldianus on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:32 pm

Davelaw wrote:doubtful, belief seems to just fine self-perpetuation no matter the state of science or knowledge-look at the rise of astrology and the belief in the paranormal in post-modern society

so? how does the belief in such nonsense help your cause?

it simply illustrates that a lot of people don't care about logic and rationality, they prefer fuzzy feelings and wishful thinking. Which is ok, as long as they don't claim it to be The Truth and want to apply it on other people or society.

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Re: Who 'died' at the cross? The Son or The Trinity?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:33 pm

but they do
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