Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

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Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by gillyflower on Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:57 am

I'd like some explanations of why you believe one or the other. I have to admit that I have always thought that Arius was right and that there were three separate beings - Jesus, Yahweh and the Holy Spirit - but how do you see it?
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by DotNotInOz on Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:27 pm

I've been a Unitarian for around 30 years, officially so from 1981 when I joined the Unitarian Universalist Church of the Larger Fellowship, then its church-by-mail for isolated religious liberals and now online, until 1997 when I "had issues" with them and quit. I was a member of a real-life UU church for about a year while going to grad school in the latter 1980's and again for another year just this past year.

I'm still a member of the B-net group, Unitarian Community, as well as a moderator for it.

Since I don't believe that any one of us is less a god than Jesus--He was simply rather better at the "god bidness" than most of us--that makes me solidly Unitarian.

I don't actually believe in a Big Supernatural Something, so I'm not as traditionally Unitarian as some. Truth be told, the label Transcendentalist probably fits me better than anything else because I do believe that all beings are interconnected spiritually and that there may be some force that holds all this stuff we call the universe together. That would include the deceased as well as spirit beings who are exclusively spirits and have never been incarnated in a physical body. I think such are possibly natural beings as are we. All the stuff we humans have concocted about angels and demons is mostly junk to pacify ourselves when something goes "whump!" in the night. Which is not to say there isn't some basis for these stories...but the beings we categorize as angels and demons are probably not much like our view of them. Who knows?

However, since I freely admit that the above is simply "what makes some sense" to me currently, I'm technically an agnostic, because I don't claim certainty about any of this. It's just the explanation that suits me.

Trinitarianism simply doesn't make any sense to me as it's usually explained. There it is in a nutshell.
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Mintie on Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:28 pm

The Trinity just doesn't make any sense to me, it makes me think of someone with a personality disorder Laughing

To me, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are different entities. Further more, I believe that the Holy Spirit is a woman. I don't know why but that's what I believe.
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Beribee on Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:16 pm

I view the trinity as 3 aspects of the same god. I also believe that the Holy Spirit is the feminine side of God. I have read that the Holy Spirit is called Sophia and Wisdom....and is always translated in the feminine. Don't know if it's true, but it makes sense to me.
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:22 am

an outsiders opinion...

I haven't got a problem with the three as one concept, its actually something found in CR, sort of. Many mythological figures have Tripartate aspects, the Morrigu and the Sovergins, a single group but made of three sisters (slighty different). Perhaps a better example would be the "three realm" cosmology. That being that the world consists of the earth (below), sky(abve) and sea(around). They are seperate components, and individual in themselves, but form a great single whole (being the world). The major symbol used by CR's, is the Triskelle or Triple Spiral to denote the 3 as 1 concept.

Inrerestingly enough, in one of the hagiographies of St. Patrick, he is held as trying to explain the trinitarian unity of the Christian God uing a 3 leafed clover (hence, one of their origins in folklore), however knowing that the 3 in 1 model would have already been understood, it is a much later addition to the hagiographies.

So to bring this back to the topic on hand, I have no opinion one way or the other, but I do understand why the 3 in 1 works, so to speak.

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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:38 am

As Gorm said, I understand why it works.

In Divine Science we have the trinity of Mind, Idea, and Consciousness; Mind (God) has to exist to have the Idea (son), and the act of Consciousness (holy spirit) makes it happen. We believe in "God, the Creator, God, the Creative Action and God, the Creation."

We also have the idea of the triune mind, Superconscious, or Christ Mind (the Father expressing on the plane of the individual, the Conscious, (the Son expressing on the plane of the individual) and the Subconscious (or the Holy Spirit expressing on the plane of the individual).

I admit though I've never understood the trinitarian concept through the eyes of traditional Christianity which presents Jesus as the "son of God", because he prayed to the Father and when it's said he *was* the Father it doesn't make a lot of sense. scratch

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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by gillyflower on Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:37 am

I understand the concept too but there probably is a reason I joined the Wiccan traditions that I did. In one in particular, they are hard polytheists. When I read about Arianism, I liked it a lot better.
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Beribee on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:06 pm

Gorm, fascinating stuff!!! The Triskelle is really pretty!
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:21 pm

Hooray for knowledge! cheers

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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Beribee on Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:52 pm

Isn't there also the triple goddess in some pagan beliefs? Maid, mother, crone.....3 stages of the same goddess???
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 pm

Yes in some Pagan traditions there is the maiden-mother-crone or threefold Goddess. It ties into the cyclical cosmology.

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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:05 pm

Gorm_Sionnach wrote:Yes in some Pagan traditions there is the maiden-mother-crone or threefold Goddess. It ties into the cyclical cosmology.

As far as I'm concerned, that's a trinity that makes sense compared with the three-in-one of the Christian concept. For one thing, encompassing as it does stages in a woman's life, it's a concept that people can understand. Who can understand a deity that's father-son-who-knows-what in one?
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Beribee on Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:43 pm

I agree, it is a lot easier to understand that the Christian trinity. But then again, there's a lot of things in Christianity that I don't understand! Smile
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Lolkat on Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:42 am

All good and interesting thoughts here. For a long time I've been
moving away from traditional ideas regarding the Christian
Trinity.....especially its most masculine expressions. But three is a
magick number and I do like pondering the many symbolic/metaphorical meanings attached to it wherever it appears.
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Kartari on Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:13 pm

I know this is a Christianity thread, but I felt compelled to add that the number three and trinities appears quite often in probably every culture in the world.

In Hinduism, three plays a major role in multiple senses. There are three gods who express the three modes or qualities of existence: Brahma (creator), Shiva (destroyer) and Vishnu (preserver). These qualities are rather obvious, though Shiva is also seen as the destroyer of ignorance (and is often depicted as dancing upon the back of a figure representative of ignorance, surrounded by a ring of eyes representative of seeing truth). There are also the three gunas or qualities that exist in this world: sattva (purity), tamas (inertia) and rajas (change). The yogic diet is based on eating sattvic or pure foods.

In Buddhism, there is the Triple Gem or Triple Jewel: the Buddha (the enlightened teacher), the Dharma (the teachings) and the Sangha (the community).
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Re: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism

Post by Sakhaiva on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:18 pm

Really good point Kartari; there are lots of triads across religious lines. Hindu iconography has many many other instances of 'threes' (three-headed deity) and even the predecessor to Islam contained a trio of goddesses (back when Allah was not alone)

The difference, of course, is how the triad is viewed in a particular religion; are we talking triadic, triune, tripartite or triplicate-associated ?

I'm at peace with the idea of a triune God. I am not at peace with the idea others will burn in Hell for not understanding God the exact same way I think I do .... who among humanity has the power to put deity in a box? After all, we still are generations away from understanding how our own brains function.

Re: Sophia Shekinah: the Comforter, the Advocate, the 'cosmic womb' ... and, yes, wisdom. In Hebrew, the noun is written in the feminine. And notice the etymological connection with the Hindu word 'Shakti' ...... also in the feminine (and also connected to the notion of a creative energy and a pure, clean wisdom) Kinda neat stuff.

.............................................................

Considering the notion of the God-head, if there is a one creator of, not merely Earth, but the Universe in it's entirety.... it would have to be an awesome force beyond anything I could possibly wrap my brain around. I cannot even count the stars in our galaxy, let alone understand the mysteries that are hidden in the universe. Now to take such a power - one that can speak such wonders into being - and have it willingly appear in the form of a whisper in a breeze in the ear of a human.... I think that is awesome in the humblist of ways.

So dove-tail my word-picture of the God-head with a creative force to comfort and give wisdom and add the more earthly concept of god-in-man-flesh, willingly sacrificed, and we start to get a hint of my view of the triune trinity (homoousios; of same substance)

Having typed that out, all I can really do is climb to the top of a mountain, enjoy a glass of port and sit in wonder.

Peace Smile
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