Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

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Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by newnature on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:01 am

Reconciliation is an accomplished fact. It is entirely outside of yourself, and it is simply to be received. There is a new view of living, no longer for self, but for God; to die to self and live to Christ.

God has taken the initiative to reconcile man back to himself. God is not reconciled to man, as though God were partly to blame for the enmity. Rather, man is reconciled to God, for it is man who moved away from God. When people need to be reconciled to one another, it normally involves a situation where fault lies on both sides to some degree. Not so with the case between man and God, man has moved away from God, and it is man who needs to be reconciled back to God, not God back to man.

The basic idea of reconciling is to change or make otherwise. This is the reverse of Hellenistic religion, where it is the human being that seeks restoration of the gods’ favor, and also of Judaism, where confession of sin and repentance are the means by which reconciliation with God is sought. It is not that we must reconcile ourselves to God. Rather, we are to be reconciled, that is, to accept what God has already achieved.

It is not merely that we acquire a right standing or do good works; we actually become righteous. For through what Christ had accomplished, we truly assume his righteousness, just as Christ assumed our sin. If our debts are not posted to our account, it is because someone else has legally assumed them. Christ righteousness ours, and our sin his.

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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by gillyflower on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:15 pm

First of all, which men are you speaking about? Are women included or are women good with your god? I can sort of agree with you if you think that men are way out of line and women aren't - but these are generalities are they not and easy to disprove.

There isn't one Hellenistic religion, are you aware of that? There are a lot of religions that flourished in the Hellenistic period or during the Roman Empire. It is therefore dangerous to generalize about them because there are always exceptions. Frankly, I'm pagan and I don't want to restore my gods' favor. We don't have the same religious concepts that you seem to have.

We also don't have a concept of sin, nor do we load down a scapegoat as you seem to be doing with Jesus. We accept that we are a mixture of light and dark and we are all responsible for our own actions.

Do you feel that you are now righteous?

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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by John T Mainer on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:20 pm

What is this sin you speak of? It is a meaningless noise to Asatruar. There is worth, but that is not granted by the gods, but by your deeds and those that have gone before you, or with whom you are tied by blood, by oath, or by station.

This is the only life you are given, it comes to you from your ancestors, and in turn you may pass it to your decendants. This world too comes to us in trust from our ancestors, to hold and protect against the needs of our decendants. The gods are with us, as our our ancestors, as are the wights that share the lands and waters with us.

Far from reconciled with them, we are instructed by them, to the limits of our own abilities to listen, to reconcile with our own selves and natures, that we can better become the person we have the capacity to be, and meet those challenges that wyrd holds for us. It is in the meeting of those challenges that we gain worth for ourselves, our associates, and our line in the eyes of our people, our ancestors, and our holy gods.

Just live; prayer not required. Fear not, for death will find cowards and heroes both, while worth awaits only they who dare to rise to meet it. Love well, for it is through connection to others that we become fully ourselves, and see fully our path. Laugh often, this world contains wonders and marvels, and horrors and pain. The latter two are given, the former two must be sought actively.

When I give thanks to my gods, it is for teaching me this, not in hopes they will fight my battles, or grant me worth beyond my deeds merit. Death will take me, but life and love I will take first.

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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by DeavonReye on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:32 pm

I understand that many christians believe what you [in the OP] said about reconciliation. However, just because it is christian doctrine, it doesn't automatically make it true.

You are basically claiming "that your god has done nothing wrong". But if this "god" of your does exist, then he has done UNTOLD number of wrong to add to any "seperation" there might be between "him" and humans. Of course, this will run contrary to your indoctrination, but logically/realistically, the fault is upon the "god" who has done exactly as is depicted in your religion. "Requiring credulity before 'he' is satisfied with us". Leaving absolutely no credible/compelling evidence that 'he' exists. Being entirely silent, hidden, . . . uncaring of how that affects people.

I trust you can understand where I am coming from here. If not, feel free to ask questions.
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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:51 pm

Not terribly concerned about you lot feeling the need to get on better terms with your god; good luck with that. I'd kind of be trepidatious if my deities had tried to do something like wipe out all but a handful of life on earth, but I digress.

Not concerned at all about sin; I owe what is owed and pay what is due, as any honorable person is called to do. I do not expect my gods to forgive me for my moral failings; it is on my shoulders to bring restitution to any I wrong.

It is a good life, if you don't weaken; and I can think of little that is weaker than reveling in being washed clean by the blood of innocents. If your god is a just god, then you ought to pay what is owed. If your god is a just god, finite transgression would also not merit infinite punishment. Alas, I do not think your god to be just.


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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:26 pm

Reconciliation?

I am reminded of something my boss at a highschool job told me.

I forgot something and had to stay late and finish it, I made the comment under my breath that I must be loosing my mind. He told me that I couldn't lose what I never had.

I have no need fore "reconciliation". I never offended my gods. They never left me. I never left them.
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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by gillyflower on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:43 pm

Off topic, but I'd just love to have a new person post here who doesn't post a lecture and then move on to another board where they post the same lecture, no doubt. Maybe they see their role as The Great Enlightened One who needs to educate everyone else in the world, since they (unlike him/her) are clearly Doing It Wrong.


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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:22 pm

I see them more like fungus. Release your spores to the wind and see if they land in a place that values shit.....
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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by DeavonReye on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:23 pm

I call people like that "Chick Tract People". They think that a few simple words will make us all say, "What? I didn't know that! How can I accept this Jesus into MY life???" As if we haven't heard all of it before many many MANY times, . . . and it isn't anymore true in the OP than it was before.

Now, if newnature wants to come on and discuss things further, then at least you can have a bit more respect for him/her. Else, a "drive by" isn't worth anything.
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Re: Reconciliation, an accomplished fact

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:52 pm

How dare you reject the great and wise poster! I mean, they've thought about this stuff really long and hard; surely with more reflection than any of you lot here!

I mean, how much reflection about religious topics can people who are regulars on a board which is focused on discussion about religious topics, really have done?

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