The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

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The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by Ben Masada on Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:44 pm

THE POPE HAS A PROBLEM IN ROME


The fact that we, the Jews, have ended our dispersion, returned to our biblical homeland, and built there a modern, and vital Jewish State - a Third Jewish Commonwealth - it is extremely relevant to Christianity. However, while some evangelical Christians celebrate our return to Israel as the necessary first stage in their concept for the coming of the Messiah, others, particularly the Vatican, see it as a theological dilemma with implications for their own interpretation of the Scriptures.

They figure that, if for all these years, it was thought that the Jews were wandering as their punishment for rejecting Jesus; if for all these years it was believed that the Jews were just a prelude to Christianity and then supposed to be reduced to a footnote, what in the world are they doing back in Israel fying F-16 fighter jets over the skies of Jerusalem?

It is no accident that the Vatican recognized the State of Israel only on December the 30th, 1993; and it was also no accident that when the Archbishop of New York, John Cardinal O'Connor, visited Israel in January 1987, the Vatican refused to allow him to meet Isreli President chaim Herzog in his office. If Herzog is really at home in Jerusalem, then the Pope has a problem in Rome.

As the Christian theologian Paul van buren once put it, "Modern Israel is both unsettling and exciting for the Christian world. It is unsettling because it was not supposed to happen this way as we read the story. The very existence of Israel as a modern State is slightly mind-blowing. This was not in the script. You thought you had some understanding of the Jews and where they were, and now they are not there. If you reflect on it all, it becomes even more unsettling, because maybe you have to go back and rethink your own story a little bit.

At the same time, it is exciting, because with Israel back on the scene again, the whole story suddenly becomes modern. For anyone with a biblical faith, the existence of this State, with Jerusalem as its capital, reawakens the whole possibility that this is not all in the past. Something about this is happening now. It is a problem we have to think about now. Maybe God is not as dead as we thought. I think this rings a note in the subconscious of even the most secular Christian."

Ben

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by tmarie64 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:03 pm

How is any of this a "problem" for the pope? Jews aren't going to take over the Catholic church. Jews in Rome has NOTHING to do with the pope in Vatican City. And you DO understand that the pope who recognized Israel is dead now... Right?
Oh, and contrary to what you may think... NEVER has ANY Catholic child been told anything about Jews "wandering".
You have NO idea what Catholics are taught, so, how about you take your generalizations elsewhere? Trust me, Jews are the last thing on the mind of every Catholic I know and, I daresay, most Catholics, in general.

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:27 pm

I think the Pope's biggest problem is not in Rome, but elsewhere in the world where the sex abuse scandals have been destroying the Church's pr. Tell me, Tina, how does the average Catholic reconcile what has happened all over the world with their experience at church? Do the news stories make it harder to trust the clergy?

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by tmarie64 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:16 am

I grew up in a small parish, everyone knew everyone and the priest would actually say your name while you were in confession, in spite of the booth and secrecy and supposed hiding of identity. I quit going to confession altogether when the priest of my mother's parish sent a fucking deacon to give her last rites and I had to call the Bishop's office to get a priest. Then when she died, even though she served/chaired MANY committees with that bastard, the priest couldn't be bothered to do her funeral, he had an associate do it. So, I have been very picky about who I trust.
That collar doesn't mean honest and trustworthy, any more than a badge means good cop. Anyone who trusts immediately is a fool.
As for reconciling it... I know that there are evil men in EVERY occupation. How do YOU reconcile rapist teachers? Cops? Protestant ministers? with your experiences?

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:06 pm

Smile I just wondered what that scandal did to the local parish priest. I probably didn't phrase it properly. But I haven't been able to get Catholics to talk about it. It's an issue that is probably talked about within the church, but outsiders never hear a thing. I wonder if that is for the best, or not. It's an internal church issue, but I do wonder if the lack of communication with non Catholics is making things better or worse.

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:02 pm

No, it's actually NOT discussed. Just as ordaining women is not discussed. At least, not with the PEOPLE of the church, the people who actually PAY for the church to run. There are many good things done and most of us choose not to let everything fall apart.

I have no respect for the leadership, but those are men, they are not the Church.

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by Ben Masada on Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:26 pm

tmarie64 wrote:How is any of this a "problem" for the pope? Jews aren't going to take over the Catholic church. Jews in Rome has NOTHING to do with the pope in Vatican City. And you DO understand that the pope who recognized Israel is dead now... Right?
Oh, and contrary to what you may think... NEVER has ANY Catholic child been told anything about Jews "wandering".
You have NO idea what Catholics are taught, so, how about you take your generalizations elsewhere? Trust me, Jews are the last thing on the mind of every Catholic I know and, I daresay, most Catholics, in general.

What I meant as a problem for the Catholic Church is the fact that, according to Christian Theology, the Jews were not supposed to return to the Land of Israel at least until the return of Jesus. It means that the understanding of the Church on this matter was wrong. That's all.

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by tmarie64 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:32 pm

You mean that the understanding for CHRISTIANS, not JUST the Church.

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Re: The Pope Has a Problem in Rome

Post by Ben Masada on Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:37 pm

tmarie64 wrote:You mean that the understanding for CHRISTIANS, not JUST the Church.

Yes, not only the Catholic Church. All Christians. BTW, Catholics are also Christians. They came first as Christians. Only in the 16th Century came Protestantism.

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