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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:12 pm

gillyflower wrote:You seem to think that a person who does not forgive is angry?

I think he is stuck in a dualistic view of reality....
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:13 pm

gillyflower wrote:Er... we aren't into loving everyone or forgiving in my religion.
I see. What does your religion teach about peace? I was raised Christian. There is plenty of contempt in that religion as well ... not much peace though. Do you subscribe to the eye for an eye doctrine?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:14 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
gillyflower wrote:Er... we aren't into loving everyone or forgiving in my religion.
I see. What does your religion teach about peace? I was raised Christian. There is plenty of contempt in that religion as well ... not much peace though. Do you subscribe to the eye for an eye doctrine?

Who said anything about contempt?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:15 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I think he is stuck in a dualistic view of reality....
How so?


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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:16 pm

gillyflower wrote:You seem to think that a person who does not forgive is angry?
Yes, actually, that's what I believe. How do you see it?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:19 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Who said anything about contempt?
Actually, the purpose of this topic is to address the contempt for the crime mentioned.
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:25 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
gillyflower wrote:You seem to think that a person who does not forgive is angry?
Yes, actually, that's what I believe. How do you see it?

No, not angry. In my religion we believe in the Law of Return. Whatever actions a person does, the choices a person makes, there are consequences to them, good and bad. In this case, the man did it, he made the choice to do it, he will reap the consequences. I'm not angry and I have not forgiven. He will face the consequences of his actions. Period.


Last edited by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:28 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
gillyflower wrote:Er... we aren't into loving everyone or forgiving in my religion.
I see. What does your religion teach about peace? I was raised Christian. There is plenty of contempt in that religion as well ... not much peace though. Do you subscribe to the eye for an eye doctrine?

What has peace to do with this topic?

I don't subscribe to an eye for an eye doctrine. There are simply (or really complicated) consequences. The laws of the land dole out consequences, relatives do, the victims, their families and friends do - the public, if you will.

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:29 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Who said anything about contempt?
Actually, the purpose of this topic is to address the contempt for the crime mentioned.

Why do I need to respect the crime?

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:34 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I think he is stuck in a dualistic view of reality....
How so?

What he meant was that you seem to think that a person is at peace (and only gets that way through forgiveness) or is angry. That is a dualistic view, a black or white view. If not this, then that.

We're trying to point out that in reality there are more than two responses.

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:37 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I think he is stuck in a dualistic view of reality....
How so?

Just the way you seem to phrase things. Hate/accept, spirit/ego, love/contempt.
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:39 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Who said anything about contempt?
Actually, the purpose of this topic is to address the contempt for the crime mentioned.

It is?

I thought the purpose of this topic was to help you get over the contempt that you feel for the crime mentioned.
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:13 pm

gillyflower wrote:No, not angry. In my religion we believe in the Law of Return. Whatever actions a person does, the choices a person makes, there are consequences to them, good and bad. In this case, the man did it, he made the choice to do it, he will reap the consequences. I'm not angry and I have not forgiven. He will face the consequences of his actions. Period.
I see. If you had lost a loved one would you feel differently? Do you feel that the law of return, or karma as I like to call it, is an outside force that controls us or do we create our own reality? In other words are we at cause or effect?

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:18 pm

gillyflower wrote:What has peace to do with this topic?
Everything, finding peace in the face of such tragedy is why we talk about it. We all have to heal somehow. What's the alternative?

gillyflower wrote:I don't subscribe to an eye for an eye doctrine. There are simply (or really complicated) consequences. The laws of the land dole out consequences, relatives do, the victims, their families and friends do - the public, if you will.
It sounds to me like you do subscribe to the eye for an eye doctrine just not on a personal level. In other words you let somebody or something else handle it for you. Is this correct?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:22 pm

gillyflower wrote:Why do I need to respect the crime?
You don't nor should you. I do not respect the crime either. Checkout my topic on total non-judgment. Basically, it's my position that it is possible to love the person if not the actions.
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:25 pm

What do you think the opposite of love is DI?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:26 pm

gillyflower wrote:What he meant was that you seem to think that a person is at peace (and only gets that way through forgiveness) or is angry. That is a dualistic view, a black or white view. If not this, then that.

We're trying to point out that in reality there are more than two responses.
I would argue that all actions and thoughts express either love or the lack there of. If this is what he meant then I would agree. How do you see it? What is an example of an action that does not either express love or the lack of it?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:27 pm

If I lost a loved one of course I would feel differently than when I have not lost a loved one.

Different religions have different concepts of karma. We do not have the eastern view of it. He is still alive, still making choices. It isn't a cut and dried thing of here is an action - stop - here is the consequence for it - next.


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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:31 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
gillyflower wrote:What has peace to do with this topic?
Everything, finding peace in the face of such tragedy is why we talk about it. We all have to heal somehow. What's the alternative?

gillyflower wrote:I don't subscribe to an eye for an eye doctrine. There are simply (or really complicated) consequences. The laws of the land dole out consequences, relatives do, the victims, their families and friends do - the public, if you will.
It sounds to me like you do subscribe to the eye for an eye doctrine just not on a personal level. In other words you let somebody or something else handle it for you. Is this correct?

I have not been harmed by the tragedy. I don't have to heal. I feel compassion for the victims and their friends and family.

There are consequences to every action. That's just the way that I've seen the universe work. Sometimes it is my responsibility to hand out a consequence or part of it, but this time it isn't.

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:31 pm

What is the "lack of love", DI?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:32 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
gillyflower wrote:Why do I need to respect the crime?
You don't nor should you. I do not respect the crime either. Checkout my topic on total non-judgment. Basically, it's my position that it is possible to love the person if not the actions.

It's fine with me if you want to love the person and not the actions. I don't love the person.

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:33 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:What do you think the opposite of love is DI?
Fear, or hatred perhaps.
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:35 pm

So you see everything as black or white?

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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:37 pm

gillyflower wrote:It's fine with me if you want to love the person and not the actions. I don't love the person.
I've found that learning to love those whom are easy to hate has brought me peace. Do you rely on the law of return for peace?
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Re: Yesterday's Headlines

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:41 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:What do you think the opposite of love is DI?
Fear, or hatred perhaps.

I disagree. I see love, hate, and fear to be not that different. The true opposite of all three is apathy. If you love something, or hate something, or even fear something, you care deeply about it. The opposite would be not to care deeply about it, yet in a different manner, but not to care about it at all, would it not?
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