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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by john5180 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:39 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:And hence, why a little incident that is easily dismissed on one hand, has me still talking about it almost a week later.

Well, it probably hit a tender spot for you that didn't for you wife. And then as a doctor, you (like perhaps a policeman) would be trained to look for details?

All, haven't you been reading posts here from irate Christians who get visibly upset when we paint all Christians with a broad brush? You even did it a post or two back..... Well?! Waddyaexpect? I would suggest this was maybe your return, and next time, you'll think before the broad brush stroke. The more I look at this thread, the more convinced that this was designed to be a learning experience for YOU on how you view others. If I were in your place right now, I think if I ever ran across that woman again, I'd give her a hug, then buy her a dozen tacos..... Then I would explain to her what happened, and why you're so grateful she made a public ass out of herself the way she did.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:44 pm

john5180 wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:And hence, why a little incident that is easily dismissed on one hand, has me still talking about it almost a week later.

Well, it probably hit a tender spot for you that didn't for you wife. And then as a doctor, you (like perhaps a policeman) would be trained to look for details?

All, haven't you been reading posts here from irate Christians who get visibly upset when we paint all Christians with a broad brush? You even did it a post or two back..... Well?! Waddyaexpect? I would suggest this was maybe your return, and next time, you'll think before the broad brush stroke. The more I look at this thread, the more convinced that this was designed to be a learning experience for YOU on how you view others. If I were in your place right now, I think if I ever ran across that woman again, I'd give her a hug, then buy her a dozen tacos..... Then I would explain to her what happened, and why you're so grateful she made a public ass out of herself the way she did.


Now that my friend would be funny.

As an aside, why do you think I posted this topic here, and not on that other site? If I wanted to fight about it, and was sure I was right, I'd post there.
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by john5180 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:02 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
Now that my friend would be funny.
She'd probably freak out, squeel like a pig, and if she's got some muscle mass on her, beat you up in the process........ Wink

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:As an aside, why do you think I posted this topic here, and not on that other site? If I wanted to fight about it, and was sure I was right, I'd post there.
(shrugs) I didn't know we were fighting about it. I thought you were upset, and we were just talking.
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:52 am

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:So my wife and I are at Taco Bell the other day ...
Well, as you know people will be people. It's nothing new. Those guys are God's children as we all are. It's best not to let them rob you of your peace of mind. Forgive them and get over it. We all learn in our own time.
Ya know, no. I was going to write a little bit about how I know you are just attempting to offer condolences and probably didn't mean it, but you should take some time to read at least the faith grouping section on the right side under the avatars.

I'm not going to. See, I remember how I wrote the opening post. I thought I was clear on the fact that I was not upset at them as individuals for their rudeness, but the fact that they were advertising their paganism, and being rude at the same time. I live in probably the armpit of the bible belt. The first exposure that people that are interacting with them to any form of paganism is more than likely them.

So they are going to think of pagans in general as you seem to be expressing here. Immature, rude, attention seeking persons who "just need to learn better".

I was torn in that instance. I wanted to step in and give them the smack down that they deserved. I wanted to show to the people in there that not all polytheists were like them. That we were not like Christians who just dismiss anyone that doesn't behave in the manner that they find acceptable as "not Christian".

There are two things that stopped me.

1. They were not actually being violent. If they were, all bets are off. Rude but not violent.

2. I carry. I have to watch what confrontations I get into, because by the mere fact that I am in them, a gun is by definition inserted in the mix. You want to see a confrontation go from rude to violent, step in.

So if I did step in, what would I say to the police after they showed up to take away the dripping bodies? That they were being rude? We don't live in a society where that is seen as a justifiable reason. I have no desire to go to jail. I have no desire to ruin my life because they were rude.

So, I will not forgive them. In fact, I will remember them and if I see them at a time and place where I can correct their behavior, I will. I am not one of your deities children, most of the people here are not your deities children, and those who kicked of this rant were more than likely not your deities children.

I will also use this as a talking point. A point that we need to be in control of our behavior. Maybe we just had an argument. Maybe it was hot. Maybe we were out in it all day, were tired, and had to go to the bathroom. That does not excuse behaving like a jackass. That does not excuse being rude to people that have no bearing on it what so ever.

Did they disturb my mind? No. They focused it. I don't run around all day in a state of blissful ignorance that can be disturbed by people. I know how we are viewed. I deal with it every day.
I can tell you have a lot of strong emotion about this. I hope you find peace of mind sooner rather than later.
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by gillyflower on Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:24 am

Feeling strong emotions at one time does not mean that he does not also have peace of mind.

The common thread I see running through your posts is a fear of emotion. Why do you fear it so much?

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:47 am

john5180 wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
Now that my friend would be funny.
She'd probably freak out, squeel like a pig, and if she's got some muscle mass on her, beat you up in the process........ Wink

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:As an aside, why do you think I posted this topic here, and not on that other site? If I wanted to fight about it, and was sure I was right, I'd post there.
(shrugs) I didn't know we were fighting about it. I thought you were upset, and we were just talking.

Just trying to work it through out loud.

If she tried to beat me up, then I could shoot her. Problem solved. Twisted Evil
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:48 am

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:So my wife and I are at Taco Bell the other day ...
Well, as you know people will be people. It's nothing new. Those guys are God's children as we all are. It's best not to let them rob you of your peace of mind. Forgive them and get over it. We all learn in our own time.
Ya know, no. I was going to write a little bit about how I know you are just attempting to offer condolences and probably didn't mean it, but you should take some time to read at least the faith grouping section on the right side under the avatars.

I'm not going to. See, I remember how I wrote the opening post. I thought I was clear on the fact that I was not upset at them as individuals for their rudeness, but the fact that they were advertising their paganism, and being rude at the same time. I live in probably the armpit of the bible belt. The first exposure that people that are interacting with them to any form of paganism is more than likely them.

So they are going to think of pagans in general as you seem to be expressing here. Immature, rude, attention seeking persons who "just need to learn better".

I was torn in that instance. I wanted to step in and give them the smack down that they deserved. I wanted to show to the people in there that not all polytheists were like them. That we were not like Christians who just dismiss anyone that doesn't behave in the manner that they find acceptable as "not Christian".

There are two things that stopped me.

1. They were not actually being violent. If they were, all bets are off. Rude but not violent.

2. I carry. I have to watch what confrontations I get into, because by the mere fact that I am in them, a gun is by definition inserted in the mix. You want to see a confrontation go from rude to violent, step in.

So if I did step in, what would I say to the police after they showed up to take away the dripping bodies? That they were being rude? We don't live in a society where that is seen as a justifiable reason. I have no desire to go to jail. I have no desire to ruin my life because they were rude.

So, I will not forgive them. In fact, I will remember them and if I see them at a time and place where I can correct their behavior, I will. I am not one of your deities children, most of the people here are not your deities children, and those who kicked of this rant were more than likely not your deities children.

I will also use this as a talking point. A point that we need to be in control of our behavior. Maybe we just had an argument. Maybe it was hot. Maybe we were out in it all day, were tired, and had to go to the bathroom. That does not excuse behaving like a jackass. That does not excuse being rude to people that have no bearing on it what so ever.

Did they disturb my mind? No. They focused it. I don't run around all day in a state of blissful ignorance that can be disturbed by people. I know how we are viewed. I deal with it every day.
I can tell you have a lot of strong emotion about this. I hope you find peace of mind sooner rather than later.

Ok, I thought we were operating under the same definition of peace of mind. Obviously I was wrong. What do you think peace of mind is?
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by Guest on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:44 am

Diminishing Insanity. As All has said you really should look at the faith group listing underneath our Avatars, I know that it is hard for some Christians ( not all Christians ) to accept that your religion is not our religion or beliefs. I should know as I once was a Christian for 55 years & then turned away & have rejected the Christian Religion ever since.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:52 am

[quote="allthegoodnamesweretaken"]
DiminishingInsanity wrote:Ok, I thought we were operating under the same definition of peace of mind. Obviously I was wrong. What do you think peace of mind is?
Well, the same definition that you quoted me in my news thread.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Look up peace of mind in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Peace of Mind may refer to:

The absence of mental stress or anxiety, and the presence of serenity, calm, quiet, comfort of mind; Inner peace
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:21 am

[quote="DiminishingInsanity"]
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
DiminishingInsanity wrote:Ok, I thought we were operating under the same definition of peace of mind. Obviously I was wrong. What do you think peace of mind is?
Well, the same definition that you quoted me in my news thread.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Look up peace of mind in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Peace of Mind may refer to:

The absence of mental stress or anxiety, and the presence of serenity, calm, quiet, comfort of mind; Inner peace

Yes, that is the text book definition. What do you think it is? How do you think one achieves peace of mind? What, if anything, do you think it is dependent on?
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by john5180 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:10 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Yes, that is the text book definition. What do you think it is? How do you think one achieves peace of mind? What, if anything, do you think it is dependent on?

Being at peace with who YOU are, All, and not associating with those who would rob you of that. I haven't seen any evidence of not being at peace with yourself coming from you. I have seen concern about how one person's actions might negatively affect how outsiders might view others who share, or claim to share your umbrella. But that isn't an example of not having peace of mind. It hasn't caused strife with your family, co-workers, or those of us here who speak to you on a regular basis. I don't see you harboring thoughts of harming yourself..... Quite frankly, DiminishingSanity would be one of those types I would put on the list of not associating with. His sole purpose is to piss you off, and although so far, you've denied him that, obliging him by replies to his posts only feeds the troll, and accomplishes nothing.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by john5180 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:21 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
Just trying to work it through out loud.

Cool Wink, OK, no problem... Just remember, the only person's actions you have any control over is yours. And in this situation, not knowing mitigating factors, you just have to chalk it up as Pagans behaving badly, and move on. There all kinds of possibilities at play here... Maybe she got into an argument with an abusive person who demanded she make that order and nothing else would do. Maybe she knew that when she returned with the wrong order, even if it weren't her fault, she'd be bitched at again. Maybe she and the worker had a bad history.... Maybe she has been put down so much in her life that she now takes it out on whoever and whenever the opportunity strikes. So many what if's.... So many. And this makes me wonder about her peace of mind. There's too many unanswered questions to be had to work it out with a sensible way to deal with the problem, or offer a solution.
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Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:22 pm

In real life, I would have long ago refused to acknowledge him on the issues he brings up.

Here though, I can examine his thought process. It seems so alien. Even if he is trying to get us worked up, it is so off what would actually get me worked up that it's curious.

I could tell him what works for me with peace of mind, and why I do not feel the absence of it even in the midst of any number of chaotic or even dangerous situations but I don't know if he'd understand.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by MaineCaptain on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:42 pm

I understand ALL's concern. Pagans have worked very long and hard to get acceptance in society, or at least have people not trying to hurt you, your family and your companion animals.

One must remember it is not strictly a personal thing, it is a community thing. How people perceive our various non main stream faiths, and how they react towards us, react as in passing laws to make life harder for those not Christian. Remember how long it look for Pagan military veterans to be allowed to have a pentagram on their head stones. That was due to bigotry and misconceptions

Freedom of religion may be in the constitution, but it is not always so obvious in the behaviour of certain types of people. So when a member of a minority faith, particularly one, that people are suspicious of in the first place, acts badly, we all suffer. Maybe not from this particular event, (hopefully)

But it does not take long to form a mob. People and pet animals, have been seriously harmed by the misconception that all Pagans are evil.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by MaineCaptain on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:49 pm

I know this makes me appear a coward, and maybe in this one instance I am. Embarassed

But ever since I got sick I stopped wearing my star, which I had not taken off in more then a decade, because I fear the medical people I see, seeing it and jumping to the wrong conclusions.

It really does matter how people perceive Pagans and other minority religions.


Edit to ad. Saw the Doctors a few days ago. I seem to be doing really well Very Happy


Last edited by MaineCaptain on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:50 pm

What were you worried about, Cap? I don't understand.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by MaineCaptain on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:57 pm

sacrificialgoddess wrote:What were you worried about, Cap? I don't understand.

I have run into, (Not for myself, a friend) Having a nurse make remarks and treat this friend, not well when they discovered they were not Christian or rather were the "other". Now it was not in my area, but has made me shy about such things.

Now after a couple of years I am less concerned, but in the beginning.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:38 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Yes, that is the text book definition. What do you think it is?
Things like love and peace cannot really be adequately defined by words. As for what it is I'll have to stick to the textbook definition I gave.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote: How do you think one achieves peace of mind? What, if anything, do you think it is dependent on?
We achieve it by choosing it. It depends on our choice. Peace of mind is after all a state of mind. Who controls your mind if not you? Having said that it's not easy. Very few people have full control of their mind. We don't like to admit it, but the truth is we let outside sources control how we feel and what we think constantly.

I study ACIM becaue it teaches us how to master the mind. It is not the only way. There are peole who have never heard of ACIM who have mastered their mind to the degree that they are literally unshakable. Nothing phases them. Their peace is absolute. Such people feel no pain but are aware when the body is in danger. They do not suffer from rage, frustration, grief, fear, etc. I haven't gotten to that point yet, but one day I will.
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:05 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:[size=15]Yes, that is the text book definition. What do you think it is?
Things like love and peace cannot really be adequately defined by words.


Try.

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
As for what it is I'll have to stick to the textbook definition I gave.

Is that anyway to have a discussion?


DiminishingInsanity wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote: How do you think one achieves peace of mind? What, if anything, do you think it is dependent on?
We achieve it by choosing it. It depends on our choice. Peace of mind is after all a state of mind. Who controls your mind if not you?

Exactly my point. Who controls it if not you?

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
Having said that it's not easy.


Not easy to be perfect. Easy to start.

DiminishingInsanity wrote:

Very few people have full control of their mind.

Why do you think that is?

DiminishingInsanity wrote:

We don't like to admit it, but the truth is we let outside sources control how we feel and what we think constantly.


I concur that majority of people let outside sources control how they feel and think constantly. How do you feel you should correct this problem?




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Post by MaineCaptain on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:07 pm

DI, what you do not understand is, most of the people here have peace of mind. They just used a different path(s) to get there.

Peace of mind is not going to be achieved in the same way by every person. We are experiencing our lives. We are active participants in our own lives.

We are all growing the way we desire to be growing. Just about everyone who frequents this board have found the correct path, and are living it.


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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by john5180 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:16 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Yes, that is the text book definition. What do you think it is?
DiminishingInsanity wrote:Things like love and peace cannot really be adequately defined by words. As for what it is I'll have to stick to the textbook definition I gave.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote: How do you think one achieves peace of mind? What, if anything, do you think it is dependent on?
DiminishingInsanity wrote:We achieve it by choosing it. It depends on our choice. Peace of mind is after all a state of mind. Who controls your mind if not you? Having said that it's not easy. Very few people have full control of their mind. We don't like to admit it, but the truth is we let outside sources control how we feel and what we think constantly.

I study ACIM becaue it teaches us how to master the mind. It is not the only way. There are peole who have never heard of ACIM who have mastered their mind to the degree that they are literally unshakable. Nothing phases them. Their peace is absolute. Such people feel no pain but are aware when the body is in danger. They do not suffer from rage, frustration, grief, fear, etc. I haven't gotten to that point yet, but one day I will.

Gotcha! Another unsubstantiated, crackpot theology running counter to mainstream Christian theology.

No author is listed for the book, but Helen Schucman wrote it with the help of William Thetford, based on what she called an "inner voice" which she identified as Jesus.

The teachings of A Course in Miracles have been supported by commentators and authors such as Eckhart Tolle.[19] However, due to ACIM's claims to "clarify" or even supersede[20] some of the teachings of orthodox Christianity, the book has been judged negatively by some Christians.

Although a friend of Schucman, Thetford, and Wapnik, Benedict J. Groeschel has since criticized ACIM and the related organizations. Finding some elements of the Course to be what he called, "severe and potentially dangerous distortions of Christian theology", he wrote that the Course is “a good example of a false revelation” and that “it has . . . become a spiritual menace to many.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_in_Miracles

Sounds somewhat like Mormonism. Tell me, do they give you "magical underwear" too for divining these revelations?
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by john5180 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:23 pm

MaineCaptain wrote:DI, what you do not understand is, most of the people here have peace of mind. They just used a different path(s) to get there.

Peace of mind is not going to be achieved in the same way by every person. We are experiencing our lives. We are active participants in our own lives.

We are all growing the way we desire to be growing. Just about everyone who frequents this board have found the correct path, and are living it.

I don't think DiminishingSanity is the least bit concerned with how others work through their problems. He has an agenda, and it only works if you follow his regimen. This IMO looses all credibility for anything he presents. He has taken it upon himself to diagnose without the benefit of an examination of his patient, and dispense what he considers sound medicine. Were we living in the horse and buggy era, no doubt he'd be peddling his wares in a traveling medicine show. Complete with mistrals, and maybe even offer exotic dance shows for the men folk.
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:23 pm

MaineCaptain wrote:DI, what you do not understand is, most of the people here have peace of mind. They just used a different path(s) to get there.

Peace of mind is not going to be achieved in the same way by every person. We are experiencing our lives. We are active participants in our own lives.

We are all growing the way we desire to be growing. Just about everyone who frequents this board have found the correct path, and are living it.


You may recall that this is what I posted.


I study ACIM becaue it teaches us how to master the mind. It is not the only way. There are peole who have never heard of ACIM who have mastered their mind to the degree that they are literally unshakable.
It is my contention that those who experience negative emotions such as anger, fear, etc. have not found peace of mind ... at least not consistently. I've given the textbook definition to support this. You are of course free to disagree.
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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:29 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
MaineCaptain wrote:DI, what you do not understand is, most of the people here have peace of mind. They just used a different path(s) to get there.

Peace of mind is not going to be achieved in the same way by every person. We are experiencing our lives. We are active participants in our own lives.

We are all growing the way we desire to be growing. Just about everyone who frequents this board have found the correct path, and are living it.


You may recall that this is what I posted.


I study ACIM becaue it teaches us how to master the mind. It is not the only way. There are peole who have never heard of ACIM who have mastered their mind to the degree that they are literally unshakable.
It is my contention that those who experience negative emotions such as anger, fear, etc. have not found peace of mind ... at least not consistently. I've given the textbook definition to support this. You are of course free to disagree.

Tell you what. You have a relative murdered and then follow that up with a miscarriage and tell me that anger and fear are negative emotions rather than healthy ways to heal. Then you will be in a position to talk.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by DiminishingInsanity on Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:30 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


Try.
The course does not aim at teaching the meaning of love, for that is beyond what can be taught. It does aim, however, at removing the blocks to the awareness of love's presence, which is your natural inheritance. The opposite of love is fear, but what is all-encompassing can have no opposite."

ACIM

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Is that anyway to have a discussion?
A discussion seems to be quite challenging Very Happy

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Why do you think that is?
They give in to their emotions.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I concur that majority of people let outside sources control how they feel and think constantly. How do you feel you should correct this problem?
It's not my problem to correct. I offer help when I can. The choice remains theirs.
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DiminishingInsanity

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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