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Post by MaineCaptain on Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:33 pm

That Gilly is really interesting. And for some reason does not surprise me.

I would like to learn more about, do more research

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Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:07 pm

It is an interesting story.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by John T Mainer on Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:28 pm

Anger is important. Anger is empowering for those who have been hurt as it takes what has hurt you and mines it for motivation to drive action. Acceptance is dangerous, as it can often lead to passive acceptance of what was done to you, seeking to make it right for it to have happened.

There is a place for every emotion we have, a time when it is appropriate. There a reason we have the broad pallet of choices we inherit; we need all the colours, even the dark ones. To try to use bright colours to paint dark things to ourselves is to delude ourselves, debillitate ourselves, and base our decisions on an unrealistic picture of our own reality.

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Post by gillyflower on Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:39 pm

Isn't it? I couldn't stop talking and thinking about it for an hour or more. I couldn't believe it, it runs counter to everything Christians teach. Dancing a jig on the monster's grave is healthier. Who knew?

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Post by john5180 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:24 pm

I gotta think on this one. Now I accept the medicinal benefits of swearing when in pain, and apply it liberally. But comes a time when you have to let go of anger and just move on.... Now I can imagine the stubbornness of the man who was shot, loosing most of his blood supply living out of spite. And I certainly don't advocate forgiving anyone who would want to or even try to kill you. But to store up anger and not let it release, such as the guy with the suitcase? To me, anger bottled up is just as dangerous as offering forgiveness. There are stages of death, and there are almost similar stages of grief. Anger is one of those stages, and it has to be unloosed and dealt with. Forgiveness doesn't deal with the anger in my opinion. Holding it all inside doesn't either.
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Post by John T Mainer on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:28 pm

Well, most of pre-Christian Europe. Slav, Celt, Germanic pretty much all understood the balance required the vengeance required for individual healing and the peace required for society to function. That place in the middle where the needs of those wronged and the needs of society itself are balanced was called justice.

It took Christianity to look at justice from the point of view only of the accused. Where that little gem came from I don't know, because the Jews did vengeance like the most clannish Scot or steadfast Teuton. I think its the whole forgiveness thing that took over; demonizing victims who aren't willing to wash their rapists feet (metaphorically), or pray for those who bathed in the blood of their fallen children. Eastern philosophy values letting go or detaching from personal bonds, but pagan European thought centered around those same attachments, so the forgiveness imperative does not sit well with our culture. A Christian Western European or North American is heir to the same pre-christian mindset; so many of them get really conflicted when their faith tells them to forgive, when every part of their mental and emotional framework demands they do the exact opposite if they are to heal and move on.

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Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:34 pm

But there is a big difference between letting go, and actually forgiving.

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Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:43 pm

Exactly! You can refuse to forgive and let go of the anger and be a perfectly happy person. I'm not angry any longer. That takes too much time and energy. I am 28 years older. I was angry, you better BELIEVE it! I was date raped the NIGHT after my dad's funeral. Then, as he was driving me home, he pulled a gun on me. THAT really pissed me off and I flat scared the shit out of him. He had a "boom box" in the back seat of his car, I reached back, dragged it to the front and tossed that sucker out my window. It bounced 5 times before leaving the highway. By the time we got back to my house he was holding the gun to keep me from killing him with it.
I sent him to jail, his momma had to bail him out, and then he spent a year in jail, 5 years on probation and there is a permanent restraining order. It pays to have a judge's daughter as a best friend...
I'm not angry. I stopped being angry when I saw the look of shock on the faces of his mother and him. I actually laughed.

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Post by John T Mainer on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:44 pm

Letting go/moving on is important for the survivors. Forgiving is not. According to the article mentioned earlier, it may actually get in the way of moving on.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by gillyflower on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:46 pm

I'm not so sure that the guy with the suitcase was storing it up inside. It seems to me that he was putting it in that suitcase. It gave him a goal. He wanted to live long enough to piss on the monster's grave. That isn't storing up the anger in my opinion. He simply had an action objective for his life. It really cheers a person up when they can identify a good objective like that and think about that rather than what happened.


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Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:52 pm

Oh, I was almost happy that this turd did what he did to me. He learned that, no matter what momma says, he can't do whatever he wants or take whatever he wants whenever he wants to. It brought my mother and oldest sister and I together in a bond that we never knew before. If my pain and the humiliation of a trial saved another girl who didn't have the support I had from going through that, then I am grateful for it.

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Post by John T Mainer on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Strong women are the bane of rapists. If more women shared your strength, fewer of these predators would be around. If so many appologists did not want to find a way to blame the wandering deer for wolf attacks, more of these predators would be shot or caged, rather than cycled through and waved at (because slapping on the wrist is cruel and unusual punishment).

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:12 pm

Thanks, John, I appreciate your appreciation of strong women.

FYI... The site I found dealing with ACIM is all about the cash. No links will be allowed... DI is being deceptive, probably not his intention just the way sham religions have of training (aka brainwashing) their believers into believing they are the best thing since sliced bread. It's not any great, mystery.. I dont' know why he doesn't just say, "A Course In Miracles", instead of "ACIM". It's not a religion, it's a money making scheme. Not some big miracle cure. Three bucks for the Nook e-book...30+ for the "real" books.... And just another scam, IMO.

There is NO idea, theory, plan, or course of action that applies to "is equally applicable to everyone and everything you see." NONE! We are all individuals, unique, and a plan that works for my car would probably piss me off if you tried it on me.

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Post by Guest on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:16 pm

My friends. I know that my previous post was basicly a rehash of past events. And I have said that I refuse to go to Tucson & attend his trial/s. But no matter what. I can't forgive all the evil michael has done his whole life. There are just some things that can never be forgiven. If that makes me out to be a bad person. So be it.

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Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:19 pm

gillyflower wrote:Feeling strong emotions at one time does not mean that he does not also have peace of mind.

The common thread I see running through your posts is a fear of emotion. Why do you fear it so much?

Excellent question. I'm just starting to read this thread...I do hope he answers you.

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Post by gillyflower on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:19 pm

No, no it doesn't make you a bad person at all. That's what we are all saying. Call a monster and monster, not a thing wrong with that. I expect your goal was to enjoy your wonderful family and you have.

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Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:20 pm

warlordofks wrote:My friends. I know that my previous post was basicly a rehash of past events. And I have said that I refuse to go to Tucson & attend his trial/s. But no matter what. I can't forgive all the evil michael has done his whole life. There are just some things that can never be forgiven. If that makes me out to be a bad person. So be it.


((((Alex)))) Not a bad person. I don't think he deserves your forgiveness.

As for a Course in Miracles, it reminds me of that what the bleep and The Secret crap.

All these people thought it was going to solve their problems, but it was just touchy feely crap that had so many logic holes and horrific implications. I wanted to smack people every time they brought that crap up.

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Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:25 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:
warlordofks wrote:Diminishing Insanity. As All has said you really should look at the faith group listing underneath our Avatars, I know that it is hard for some Christians ( not all Christians ) to accept that your religion is not our religion or beliefs. I should know as I once was a Christian for 55 years & then turned away & have rejected the Christian Religion ever since.

I to have rejected Christianity.

How? The founder of this miracle scam got her guidance from a voice SHE SAID WAS JESUS! HOW in the hell can you follow the words of CHRIST and not be Christian??????????

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Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:27 pm

DiminishingInsanity wrote:john5180, I love you but your posts are inappropriate. You know nothing of ACIM.

Now THAT is just frickin' CCCCRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPYYYY! You don't "love" him. You don't even KNOW him! Don't lie, don't hand us platitudes... that's just bullshit and we are all FAR too old to believe it. Go to B'net or Facebook and spread THAT fertilizer, cuz, here, we know it's not fertilizer is lies.

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Post by John T Mainer on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:27 pm

Love exists, it is hard to get rid of, even when the object of that love is unworthy and dangerous. Hate exists. When you must act to protect yourself or others from one that you love, the gods have given us hate to balance the love, and free us to act as our conscience dictates.

In Heathenry we know this conflict of loyalties all to well; caught between duty to one of your own, and duty to both yourself and the community. The Japanese have written much on the subject of nino and giri, the conflicts between personal bonds and obligation.

Anger or hatred frees us of the bonds that love has placed on us; fetters that have allowed the Fenris wolf to run free to savage those who have done no wrong while we are bound from acting. Embrace the anger to empower right action, and then let the resolution that comes from action allow you to let the anger go, let the hatred go. It is needed only for a time, and then needs to be let go.

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Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:29 pm

sacrificialgoddess wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
DiminishingInsanity wrote:Hmmm, well, I see I've managed to piss a lot of people off simply by suggesting that they shouldn't be pissed off. People are entitled to feel however they choose. In any case, since I seem to be having the opposite effect of my intended purpose I'll excuse myself from this discussion. I thank you all for your different points of view.

Much love and light. see ya.

I have the fortune to have seen both SG and John pissed off. You have not pissed them off. You have tired them. You have become a broken record and boring.

Scary, ain't I? LMAO!

Scary ain't EVEN the word for it! LOL I get mad quick, explode, and I'm ok. I'm bitchy. You, however, anger slowly, and because of that it really is scarier than me.

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Post by tmarie64 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:35 pm

warlordofks wrote:My friends. I know that my previous post was basicly a rehash of past events. And I have said that I refuse to go to Tucson & attend his trial/s. But no matter what. I can't forgive all the evil michael has done his whole life. There are just some things that can never be forgiven. If that makes me out to be a bad person. So be it.

It makes you HUMAN! And I'd think you were completely out of your mind if you could FORGIVE a man who, not only killed your family members and threatened to kill you and your kids, but also killed HIS OWN family. That is just beyond all comprehension for me. I just can't wrap my head around THAT kind of evil... It's one thing to kill strangers, but a sibling?... No way.

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Post by john5180 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:32 pm

John T Mainer wrote:Love exists, it is hard to get rid of, even when the object of that love is unworthy and dangerous. Hate exists. When you must act to protect yourself or others from one that you love, the gods have given us hate to balance the love, and free us to act as our conscience dictates.

In Heathenry we know this conflict of loyalties all to well; caught between duty to one of your own, and duty to both yourself and the community. The Japanese have written much on the subject of nino and giri, the conflicts between personal bonds and obligation.

Anger or hatred frees us of the bonds that love has placed on us; fetters that have allowed the Fenris wolf to run free to savage those who have done no wrong while we are bound from acting. Embrace the anger to empower right action, and then let the resolution that comes from action allow you to let the anger go, let the hatred go. It is needed only for a time, and then needs to be let go.

To me, John, success is being able to move beyond love, or for that matter hatred toward someone who does you wrong, and be able to land right smack in the middle of apathy. Love and hate are emotions. And both require the use of emotional energy. Now getting to the point to where you don't waste the emotion required to love, and then reaching the point of where you don't even want to waste the emotional energy it takes to hate is the desired goal.

Under the Celtic system, one's word is their bond. Betray that bond and then there would be trouble, generally resulting in the death of the wrongdoer. But we don't live under that same system... even for the non Christians, we are bound by laws. Laws take the place of blood revenge, and I suppose rightfully so. But once accomplished, move on, without the useless waste of the emotion to hate, or forgiving the wrongdoer... The job is complete.
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Post by John T Mainer on Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:44 pm

In Heathenry, we have the declaration of Nithling. Once a person has been declared Nithling by the community, they are a non-person. There word is nothing, their insults and accusations count for nothing, as they have proved their word is worth nothing they can neither testify nor make contracts.

You don't hate Nithlings, you don't even think of them. They are nameless things that differ from corpses only by the power of motion they temporarily posses, and the depletion of valuable oxygen they represent.

They have no family, nor can their actions shame the family they turned their back on. Once you know your brother to be such, you will have no need to feel anything at all. He will be "dead to you". What remains has no meaning for you.

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Re: GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:19 pm

The Gentleman that posted what I responded to just happened to rub me the wrong way. What with all the hell I've gone through with my father while growing up & for a long time being basicly condemned by my family for being the one who first turned him in, in 1978. Then the hell I put my own self through since I was fooled by michael & so worked to have him make parole & be sent to Tucson to live with Maria. But finally my brother Skip has came around & seen michael for who he truly is. As for myself. I'm still going to be working to spread the message that LOVE is the most powerful force in the Universe & that the more you give the more you have to give. And now I have to admit/wonder that all of us siblings didn't turn out like michael.

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