Reasons politicians peeve me off....

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Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:16 am

1. Politicians do not create jobs. With the exception of creating large public works structures (Hoover dam, government monuments) they do not create jobs. They can help to make conditions more favorable for job creation, but they do not create jobs.

2. I do not care what other people do, as long as it does not effect me. People can drive fast, do drugs, join cults, drink gallons of cola, buy all the fully automatic anti aircraft guns that they want. I just do not care.

More to come, and/or feel free to add your own.....
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by john5180 on Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:00 am

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:1. Politicians do not create jobs. With the exception of creating large public works structures (Hoover dam, government monuments) they do not create jobs. They can help to make conditions more favorable for job creation, but they do not create jobs.

Manufacturers do not create jobs. With the exception of opening plants powered by the electricity generated by the Hoover Dam, Tennessee Valley Authority, or have raw materials brought in by the Interstate Transit system. Same difference... And big business takes a huge chunk of government money in the form of subsidies and special tax advantages.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:2. I do not care what other people do, as long as it does not effect me. People can drive fast, do drugs, join cults, drink gallons of cola, buy all the fully automatic anti aircraft guns that they want. I just do not care.

Your apathy is underwhelming.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:More to come, and/or feel free to add your own.....

I won't sleep again until I read more.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:26 pm

Well, this one isn't as emotionally charged as other topics. I wrote this a while back when I was peeved that various politicians were blaming each other for not creating jobs and ambiguously claiming that they would. I agree that the actual path to job creation is complicated, and many variables exist, but since many variables exist, I do not think that politicians can take credit for creating jobs by creating favorable conditions for job creation. Although what these conditions might be would probably be a topic to um discuss as well....

More formal response tomorrow....
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by john5180 on Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:27 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Well, this one isn't as emotionally charged as other topics. I wrote this a while back when I was peeved that various politicians were blaming each other for not creating jobs and ambiguously claiming that they would. I agree that the actual path to job creation is complicated, and many variables exist, but since many variables exist, I do not think that politicians can take credit for creating jobs by creating favorable conditions for job creation. Although what these conditions might be would probably be a topic to um discuss as well....

More formal response tomorrow....


Actually, this is a topic I'm really interested it. I do believe the government can create jobs... Not long term, mind you, but blazing a path for the business community to follow. My peeve with politicians is the enormous outsourcing of jobs, and the companies doing the bulk of the outsourcing still on corporate welfare. And trust me, if the government began to penalize corporations who outsource, rather than reward with tax credits and subsidies, that practice would stop. And then again, government would have opened another door to domestic job creation.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:24 am

john5180 wrote:
Manufacturers do not create jobs. With the exception of opening plants powered by the electricity generated by the Hoover Dam, Tennessee Valley Authority, or have raw materials brought in by the Interstate Transit system. Same difference... And big business takes a huge chunk of government money in the form of subsidies and special tax advantages.

John, my point cannot be found by extrapolating my argument. My point was not that any entity is responsible for creating jobs. It was that politicians do not create jobs.

john5180 wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:2. I do not care what other people do, as long as it does not effect me. People can drive fast, do drugs, join cults, drink gallons of cola, buy all the fully automatic anti aircraft guns that they want. I just do not care.

Your apathy is underwhelming.

My apathy? "If it harm non, do as ye will".

It's not apathy, it is respect. Respect enough for people to make their own decisions regardless of whether I agree with them or not. Respect for adults to be in charge of their own lives.

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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:52 am

john5180 wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Well, this one isn't as emotionally charged as other topics. I wrote this a while back when I was peeved that various politicians were blaming each other for not creating jobs and ambiguously claiming that they would. I agree that the actual path to job creation is complicated, and many variables exist, but since many variables exist, I do not think that politicians can take credit for creating jobs by creating favorable conditions for job creation. Although what these conditions might be would probably be a topic to um discuss as well....

More formal response tomorrow....


Actually, this is a topic I'm really interested it. I do believe the government can create jobs... Not long term, mind you, but blazing a path for the business community to follow. My peeve with politicians is the enormous outsourcing of jobs, and the companies doing the bulk of the outsourcing still on corporate welfare. And trust me, if the government began to penalize corporations who outsource, rather than reward with tax credits and subsidies, that practice would stop. And then again, government would have opened another door to domestic job creation.

I don't know if I need the day cooling off period for this one. I'm almost in agreement with you.

I will say that government can create jobs, in the form of massive public works creations, but also that they are temporary.

I'll disagree that they blaze a path for the business community to follow.

The outsourcing of jobs does bother me. I'm not involved in big business enough to know whether they get tax credits and subsidies to do so. I am aware of other countries that have a lower standard/cost of living, and therefore can pay the workers less, and less tax is levied from the corporation, making it more attractive than hiring a labor force here.

I listened to a story on NPR this weekend about this topic. They were saying that there were jobs, and they offered various places that had jobs, the problem is that they were all food service/retail type jobs, and essentially minimum wage.

What I will say is that government can create an environment where job creation can occur. That's kind of a "if you build it they will come" approach though. There is more to it than what they can do.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by John T Mainer on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:35 pm

The government can reward behavior that creates sustainable revenue generating jobs. Good paying jobs in industries that generate corporate profits cause:
1-Money for local workers to inject back into the local economy
2-Tax revenue from the poor overtaxed bastards at the bottom of the totem pole.
3-Money for local businesses for supply, transport, technical support and the thousand spinoffs.
4-Tax revenue from the local businesses; granted lesser amounts charged to corporations than poor working schmucks, but at least its paid here and not to the Peoples Republic of China.
5-Close to nothing from the corporation that makes a profit, but hey at least their workers are paying theirs.

Exporting jobs gives us two sources of revenue;
1-Money to lobbiests to pay off lawmakers, support local clergy to continue to demonize labour, socialized medicine and education, as well as those pesky environmental laws.
2-Corporate taxes that might buy a coffee if you don't go to Starbucks.

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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by john5180 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:26 pm

john5180 wrote:
Manufacturers do not create jobs. With the exception of opening plants powered by the electricity generated by the Hoover Dam, Tennessee Valley Authority, or have raw materials brought in by the Interstate Transit system. Same difference... And big business takes a huge chunk of government money in the form of subsidies and special tax advantages.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:John, my point cannot be found by extrapolating my argument. My point was not that any entity is responsible for creating jobs. It was that politicians do not create jobs.

Governments can and do. I'm not concerned by politicians. Most politicians get their pockets lined by those huge corporations wanting a lucrative government contract, so in that sense, you're correct. Contracts are made daily for infrastructure repair of Federal roads, and Interstate Hi-ways. Repairs done to airports are done by private contractors, and the Federal Government pays for the work. You can't tell me that Kellog/Brown and Root would be as large a corporation as they are without the benefit of government contracts. If this is going to be a hair splitting contest, we just as well call it a day.


allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:2. I do not care what other people do, as long as it does not effect me. People can drive fast, do drugs, join cults, drink gallons of cola, buy all the fully automatic anti aircraft guns that they want. I just do not care.

john5180 wrote:Your apathy is underwhelming.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:My apathy? "If it harm non, do as ye will".

It's not apathy, it is respect. Respect enough for people to make their own decisions regardless of whether I agree with them or not. Respect for adults to be in charge of their own lives.

For a government not to make accessible jobs, either by punishing those corporations who export them, or creating new contracts to put people to work on badly needed infrastructure, while politicians cutting back on unemployment benefits for those out of work is causing harm to a lot more people than just you or me. I personally can't hide in a little cocoon telling myself that if it don't affect me personally, I don't need to worry about it. One can only isolate him/herself so much and apathy sets in.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:18 am

john5180 wrote:
Governments can and do. I'm not concerned by politicians. Most politicians get their pockets lined by those huge corporations wanting a lucrative government contract, so in that sense, you're correct. Contracts are made daily for infrastructure repair of Federal roads, and Interstate Hi-ways. Repairs done to airports are done by private contractors, and the Federal Government pays for the work. You can't tell me that Kellog/Brown and Root would be as large a corporation as they are without the benefit of government contracts. If this is going to be a hair splitting contest, we just as well call it a day.

Ok, well, my initial post, and the post after it were about the fact that politicians do not create jobs and was prompted by candidates blaming each other for not creating jobs. Anything not related to that topic does not concern me. If you want to argue about that, great, but I'm not standing across the line and taking fire when it wasn't my initial position.

john5180 wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:2. I do not care what other people do, as long as it does not effect me. People can drive fast, do drugs, join cults, drink gallons of cola, buy all the fully automatic anti aircraft guns that they want. I just do not care.

john5180 wrote:Your apathy is underwhelming.

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:My apathy? "If it harm non, do as ye will".

It's not apathy, it is respect. Respect enough for people to make their own decisions regardless of whether I agree with them or not. Respect for adults to be in charge of their own lives.

For a government not to make accessible jobs, either by punishing those corporations who export them, or creating new contracts to put people to work on badly needed infrastructure, while politicians cutting back on unemployment benefits for those out of work is causing harm to a lot more people than just you or me. I personally can't hide in a little cocoon telling myself that if it don't affect me personally, I don't need to worry about it. One can only isolate him/herself so much and apathy sets in.

John, I'm really not sure how that relates?
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by john5180 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:48 am

One last comment, then I'll back off of this thread....

Any funding for jobs stimulus comes by vote. Politicians vote up or down on these packages.... Ergo, if a jobs bill fails in Congress, it is ENTIRELY due to the efforts of politicians. If the bill passes, it is ENTIRELY due to the efforts of politicians.

I get the feeling that you think politicians don't comprise the workings of the government....... So, if you aren't sure how those two entities relate, this discussion is useless.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:23 am

Is a cell the heart?

Can it pump blood?

I know that politicians are an integral and indispensable part of government. However, a politician is not the government.

Do you understand this?
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by john5180 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:44 pm

I understand this..... you broke your own rule about waiting a day to reply to a post.

Have a good one, All.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:23 pm

Did I say something that offended you?

In any case, it does appear that political discussions do not work.

It was worth a try.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by john5180 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:00 pm

No, I'm not offended. And I refuse to get that way. But rules are rules, no? That was the deal, and I reluctantly agreed to them.
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:11 pm

I had bypassed the day cooling off because I'm not that worked up about this, and said so in a previous post. It's not like this is discussing guns or something like that.

Government does create jobs in the form of public works projects. I think I said something like that around here. We're in agreement there. I don't know what we are arguing about.

Now, did you just agree to them for me....?

If we can pot and kettle this for a second, I doubt you read my 8:18 today and had a 24hr waiting period before you responded at 9:48.....

Wink
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by john5180 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:36 pm

Are we done yet?
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Re: Reasons politicians peeve me off....

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:48 pm

Yeah, we're done.

We're to stubborn to argue each other.
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