Anyone here?

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Re: Anyone here?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:42 pm

She will feel much better soon, I hope. Once the infected teeth are gone, her mouth should heal pretty quickly. Give her lots of pets, MC, poor kitty!

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Re: Anyone here?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:48 pm

I suppose she needs soft food?

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Re: Anyone here?

Post by MaineCaptain on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:00 pm

I am softening the crunchies. with water. She is eating. And she has purred since being home.
Funny how you can feel guilty for doing the right thing.

I know she will be fine in a week or so, and we did manage to get her first dose of pain killer. She is not bothering or rubbing her mouth like it it bothering her.

She is a strong girl, I think it was just a shock, she has never been away from home since I got her.

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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:27 pm

SG, view my responses on the Capitalism thread
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by john5180 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm

Davelaw wrote:SG, view my responses on the Capitalism thread
Dave, you would do well to remind your Christian friends on that board, especially Adelphe, that in the early days of the religion, at Paul's insistence, they were the text book case of socialism. They lived in communes, and shared equally amongst themselves. I cite Acts 4:32—5:11 as an example of one person who attempted to gain material wealth on his own without giving all back to the group. Christians today seem to have forgotten this, Suspect , and clearly the early church did not practice Capitalism as we know it today, or even then. Can you see yourself for example living in a section of town with only Christians who shared their wealth in a communal pot, and each was given only as to their needs? That's the way it was during the era when the Apostles were forming new churches. And this isn't the only case where communes sprang up and their moneys were deposited to the central leader to disperse as needed.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by john5180 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:21 pm

It never ceases to amaze me how so many self professed "good upstanding Christians" forget this about their church history.... Especially when demeaning their President the way they do.

There are times when I truly pity them for the sins against other humans they are going to need to account for.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:49 am

Ac 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Seems they had discretion about how much wealth they shared.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by john5180 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:43 am

Davelaw wrote:Ac 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Seems they had discretion about how much wealth they shared.

You forget too, Dave? Acts 4:32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. (NIV)

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.(KJV)

Seems that there was no discretion after all.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by john5180 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:58 am

Are Christians really meant to share "all things in common"?
Jesus commanded, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:34-35) Loving someone as yourself includes meeting their needs with what you have.

What is the result of disobeying this commandment?
Millions of Christians continue to live in poverty today, particularly in the developing world, and those who hold onto their wealth, particularly in the developed world, disqualify themselves as "disciples" of Jesus as He defined it above.
www.justbible.net/acts4.htm

You don't hear too much stuff like this preached from the pulpits these days. And with the Christian Taliban, disguised as a bunch of patriots in tri cornered hats with tea bags dangling down sure as hell don't preach it. Instead, they call their President a socialist, and worse for actually wanting to do the work your Jesus commanded and at the same time take the sting of making people turn over ALL of their money. Odd ain't it?
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:52 am

A) there is no evidence that this commonality ever spread past Jerusalem

B) it was not the same as communism-they never controlled the means of production or the society at large-if anything they operated as Commune within the greater economic system analogous to a rural farmer's or electrical coop or a grange society or even an Amish, Amana, Oneida or Hutterite colony

C) the direct result of having things in common was distribution problems and hostility caused by those problems Acts 6: 1-6

D) the indirect result was poverty
you see Paul constantly holding collections for the poor in Jerusalem
Romans 15, Acts 11,1 Cor 16, 2 Cor 9

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Re: Anyone here?

Post by john5180 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:20 pm

Davelaw wrote:A) there is no evidence that this commonality ever spread past Jerusalem
Really? Every town Paul set up a church was included..... Antioch, Corinth, Galatia, ROME...... And there's more than adequate evidence to show it. Read of the life of Paul and his teachings from an outside source.

Davelaw wrote:B) it was not the same as communism-they never controlled the means of production or the society at large-if anything they operated as Commune within the greater economic system analogous to a rural farmer's or electrical coop or a grange society or even an Amish, Amana, Oneida or Hutterite colony
Communism and socialism aren't mutually inclusive. Communism: ( often initial capital letter ) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party. Socialism:a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. Granted when socialism is put into the hands of a totalerian leadership, such as Christianity tends to be at times in history, I can see where the confusion might lie.


Davelaw wrote:C) the direct result of having things in common was distribution problems and hostility caused by those problems Acts 6: 1-6

There was some complaints made by the Hellenistic Jews against those from Jerusalem, but James seems to overcome it.... Acts 6:3-5.


Davelaw wrote:D) the indirect result was poverty
you see Paul constantly holding collections for the poor in Jerusalem
Romans 15, Acts 11,1 Cor 16, 2 Cor 9

Acts 11:1 pertains to Paul getting chastised by the Jews in Jerusalem for going into Gentile neighborhoods. But if you read further, you see they "kept their peace", or, in effect were shut down by Paul. Acts 11:2-18. Dave, you, above all should know to read the entire narrative.
Romans 15 seems to be Paul reinforcing the notion of Christians helping others.... Romans 15:1-3 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please [his] neighbour for [his] good to edification. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. I don't see this as Paul begging for money, or that the result is poverty. I can think of several televangelists today that use those same verses for a way for increase of wealth. Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Frederick Price, and Jessie Duplantis just to name a few.

1 Corinthians speaks of tithing. As I understand it, tithing (10%) is still in vogue in the church today, Dave. Where does this suggest poverty within the community?

1 Corinthians 9 opens with Paul wanting the same rights as any other Apostle.... primarily to be sponsored (paid). You don't work for free, do you, Dave? Do you live in abject poverty?

All of your arguments fall short of the facts.... The early church prospered by socialism. It thrived and grew as a result of it.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:54 pm

nonsense, I have the undergraduate degree in Econ. you don't
you can share resources and still operate in a market system-another example would be the Israeli Kibbutz
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:58 pm

Ac 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

Ro 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:03 pm

john5180 wrote:
Davelaw wrote:A) there is no evidence that this commonality ever spread past Jerusalem
Really? Every town Paul set up a church was included..... Antioch, Corinth, Galatia, ROME...... And there's more than adequate evidence to show it. Read of the life of Paul and his teachings from an outside source.
Show me any evidence that the Churches outside of Jerusalem had things in common.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by john5180 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:14 pm

quote="john5180"]
Davelaw wrote:A) there is no evidence that this commonality ever spread past Jerusalem
Really? Every town Paul set up a church was included..... Antioch, Corinth, Galatia, ROME...... And there's more than adequate evidence to show it. Read of the life of Paul and his teachings from an outside source.
[/quote]
Davelaw wrote:Show me any evidence that the Churches outside of Jerusalem had things in common.

I'll go ya one gooder, Dave. Watts, in LA., Harlem, NYC, where ever in Houston you have predominately Mexican or Black neighborhoods, Phoenix, AZ where the majority of Hispanics live. Lower 9th Ward, new Orleans. Need I go on? Christians did not live with, and other than what involved their daily living did not associate with Pagans. It's really not that much different as now, except it's the Christians who turn their noses up.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Davelaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:48 pm

I'm honestly confused-I don't get your point

what does segregation have to do with socialism?
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by john5180 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:59 pm

Davelaw wrote:I'm honestly confused-I don't get your point

what does segregation have to do with socialism?

Nothing confusing.... They lived in close communities. Segregated due to their beliefs. The shared their money equally (re-read Acts again). Amassing money (read RICHES into that) was unimportant to them. Do you get the point now? Helping others was paramount. People don't do that today; they just don't think like that. Hell, the majority of people don't even acknowledge their next door neighbor when they see them outside at the same time. And if you happen to be unemployed and in need, you're lazy.

Dave, I think you get the point, but you don't want to admit it, because it would unravel everything you believe in politically. And actually, this ain't the place to talk about it anyhow.
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Re: Anyone here?

Post by MaineCaptain on Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:30 am

You made me think John. I love my neighbourhood, It consists of 8 houses. I know everyone, and we all are there for each other.

Its funny, in a way we all know what is going on each others lives, but at the same time we don't pry, we each allow the others to have privacy.

Most of us have pet animals, I seem to feed every ones cat(s). We are not all the same religion or political affiliation, yet we get along well. A tiny insular community. It is nice.

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Re: Anyone here?

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:14 am

And Dave. I can see where John is coming from. Growing up in Phoenix the only time we ever saw so called Christians was during the X-Mas season. The rest of the year they turned their noses up at those of us who were poor & on welfare. But at X-mas time boy did you ever see a change in them just so that they could feel good about themselves. And BTW, wasn't it Jesus himself who said that whatever you do for the least of mine you do to me. He didn't say just at certain times of the year only.

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Re: Anyone here?

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