The Taliban

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The Taliban

Post by maya3 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:46 am

Where do you draw the line, and how do you do it, between accepting cultural differences and getting involved when a culture has abhorrent human rights violations such as the Taliban?

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Re: The Taliban

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:27 pm

Balancing cultural sensitivity against basic human rights can be an ethically channeling endeavor.

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Re: The Taliban

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:42 pm

Well, you'll have to consider me insensitive.

Frankly, I'm so sick of that side of the world and these never-ending wars I often just want to A-bomb them and repopulate. Not very nice, I know.

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Re: The Taliban

Post by maya3 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:25 pm

Gorm,

Balancing cultural sensitivity against basic human rights can be an ethically channeling endeavor.

That is why it can be such an interesting discussion.
I feel strongly about respecting other cultures. I realize that it's very easy to assume that YOU are right and that others are ignorant. But really it's just another perspective. People used to think that Native Americans were savages who needed to become either killed, converted to Christianity and Brittish culture and language. Our history is FULL of this not only with Native Americans. Missionaries have been/and are still all over the world converting people to what they see as better.
But at the same time, the Taliban is completely insane, it cannot be excused by religious differences and culture when people can get killed because they have the wrong beard, or walking without a male relative, where women are not allowed education.

I sometimes feel the same as you TED. Especially when I hear top Taliban leaders explain that somebody throw acid on girls who were on their way to school since it is SO offensive to them that she should go to school when she should stay at home.
Lets hope that I never meet a Taliban man who would say something like that, I would end up in jail...

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Re: The Taliban

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:34 pm

I guess I have a little bit of remnant war hawk left in me sometimes.

In New Age speak, there's a breed of people that are, reincarnation-wise, fallen angels. They have a fighter-mentality that says if it can make the world a better place or work toward a higher human goal, the loss of life is inconsequential. I seem to have a lot of those traits. Juggle

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Re: The Taliban

Post by maya3 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:46 pm

TED,
Well the Gita is set at the scene of a big battle.
Arjuna does not want to fight, but Krishna then tells him that he has to do his duty and do it.
It does refer to our inner struggle as human beings. BUT at the same time, sometimes I think it could be taken more literally and tells us if things are really bad there may be no other solution.

I wonder what the taliban expects women to do if they don't have any male relatives. Should they stay in the house and starve??

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Re: The Taliban

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:21 pm

Well I've heard the issue, especially regarding the recent Afghani legislation to essentially legalize (reinstate?) in marriage rape, expressed in two strains. One is that we have no right to enforce "our" cultural norms on another culture, to which people will respond, if that is the case than why are we enforcing "our" form of government there with costly wars? But the Afghani people want democracy? Okay, but I'm sure Afghani women do not want to be raped either? Etc, etc, etc.

This is the difficult part, how much of the instilling of a set of international human rights would ammount to cultural imperialism? Coming from a cultural herritage which was brutally repsessed by the forces of imperialism, I perfer to error on the side of caution,as it is a rather complicated issue.

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Taliban

Post by John T Mainer on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:00 pm

What can be a simpler question? You do not need to be a person of faith, you do not need to know the history, or culture, or technological level of the people involved. It really is quite simple.
Can you tolerate the Taliban?

Do you believe it is permissible for a widow to be beaten to death for leaving her house to buy food without her (dead) husband (dead) brother or (dead) father for escort?

Do you believe that it is permissible to slaughter schoolteachers, and burn schools for the crime of teaching starving people how to irrigate their land, how to build roads to allow them to trade their goods for what they cannot make, how to treat the horrible wounds their never ending internacidal violence, and external warfare have bequeathed them?

Do you believe that gang-rape is a punishment that can be ordered by a village upon a woman to punish a man of her family?

Do you believe that women are sub-human; able to be bought and sold, bartered and gifted for the indentured servitude and judicially sanctioned rape and imprisonment that some think to sanctify by a marriage that somehow does not require consent?

Do you believe that someone should be murdered for the crime of worshipping as their heart, mind and soul bids them to?

Do you believe that schools are places to teach young boys that their only purpose in life is to die murdering complete strangers at the whim of old men who will never shed a drop of their own blood, nor dirty their own hands with the blood of the innocents they gleefully train children to slaughter?

Do you believe that the history of your people, the monuments of its past, its learning and achievements must be blown off the face of the earth, for they are the work of other faiths your ancestors knew?

Do you believe that a handful of men with faces hidden by dark masks, with guns in their hands, shall determine how all persons in the land are permitted to think, feel, believe, and live, on pain of torture, death, and destruction of whole families?

If any of these statements is objectionable to you, then there is no room in your heart, or your moral code, for the Taliban and its teachings.

It is not a matter of faith; are we human beings who believe that others of our species have rights and worth of their own, or are we less than wolves who will feed themselves on the flesh and suffering of their own kind?

Honestly, what could be simpler?

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Re: The Taliban

Post by maya3 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:25 pm

John,
I agree, very well said!

My first instinct is to say GO AND GET THEM, THE F......ING BASTARDS it's inhumane really. There is no excuse at all. NONE.

But, how do we do this?

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Re: The Taliban

Post by John T Mainer on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:46 pm

Gobels said to Hitler "Give me the child, and I will give YOU the man"

We got the Saudi's to fund the madrassas to turn out good Mujahedeen during the Soviet occupation. We gave them the children, and they gave us the Taliban.

Our troops in Afghanistan will win the war by holding the ground long enough to get the next generation through school. We must give the children to the teachers, that they can give to Afghanistan men and women who are something other than stone age versions of cruise missiles; hashishans who are no more than bombs with feet to walk to their targets.

Soldiers die to buy time. Spend that time on the children and the Taliban will go the way of the Hitler Youth. Leave the job half done, and see then next generation pay in blood tenfold the price we quailed at.

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Re: The Taliban

Post by maya3 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:51 pm

John,
I agree.

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Re: The Taliban

Post by ItsAllALie on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:52 pm

We have an obligation as human beings, I think, to make the world as humane as we can for other human beings,,,,

I believe in cultural diversity,,,,,I believe that not all cultures must be the same to be valuable,,,,I also believe that it is sometimes difficult for us to understand the value that is another culture when we're not PART of that culture,,,

But there does come a point when the inherent value of a culture is simply outweighed by how inhumanely they treat other human beings,,,,that's when we must act,,,,

first with education,,,,,and then with more than that, if education doesn't work,,,,

I think, though, that A-bombing the whole place would put us in the realm of just as INHUMANE as they are,,,,afterall, we can't pick and choose who is affected by the A-bomb, now can we? We'd be A-bombing alot of those widows and children we are always criticizing THEM for treating inhumanely,,,,

I do find myself thinking how much a pity it is, however, that there isn't another kind of A-Bomb,,,,

the A**hole bomb Smile It zeros in and only gets the A**holes Smile

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Re: The Taliban

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:41 pm

Is it right? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it true? If it is not one of those things, then it is our duty to speak up.
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Re: The Taliban

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:14 pm

I support the decisions to do something about them. I just disagree with the manner that it has been done.

First, we need to take responsibility, we created them. We need to own up to that.

Secondly, this is a long haul, and it should have been presented as that from the start. The general US pop is skittish when it comes to violence anyway, they were thinking this would be another Desert storm. It will take at least 30 years, and I don't think they are ready for the level of commitment that is necessary. John is right, we do have to have kids grow into adults to get to where we want to be, but that also means that our kids will become adults during the process. I really don't think we are prepared for that.

If we don't do it right though, it will just make the problem worse.

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Re: The Taliban

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:59 pm

We go in, take ALL their children, bring all of them to the US, raise them in our culture, de-program them, and ship them back when they're 18. Win.

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Re: The Taliban

Post by wontgetfooledagain on Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:06 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

If we don't do it right though, it will just make the problem worse.

all

Uh huh... and if history is any indication, then it is highly doubtful that we will do it "right"... whatever that is...

Rob

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Re: The Taliban

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:27 pm

We are pretty good at screwing stuff up, aren't we?
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Re: The Taliban

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:34 pm

LOL! I don't see how our culture would de-program them.

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