What does "son of God" really mean?

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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:32 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:
There are all sorts of biblical accounts of God speaking to people directly. Doesn't happen anymore.

I don't think it ever did, and that all those stories are just that, myths to arouse awe and wonder in the hearer or reader.

... and I think they did but ceased after the personal Revelation of Jesus Christ combined with the completed Biblical canon -see 1 Cor. 13

I will try to address some of the other comments is separate posts
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:35 pm

DeavonReye wrote:
Davelaw wrote:son of a god denoting kingship

not all the gods had children

but think Chinese=if you were a son of Heaven-you had a divine right to rule

I understand the "son of a god as the kingship", but can Jesus be a "son" if he always existed? That's what I was trying to figure out. It isn't as though Jesus was born of god and will inherit the kingdom when "god dies". So the "kingship of the son" seems like an oddity is this setup.

Son denotes the relationship of one aspect of God to submit Himself to another aspect
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:39 pm

DeavonReye wrote:I just don't understand this concept. I understand the normal response that christianity gives, . . . but not the logical flow of it. I just don't see any reason to have an "analogy of a son" in whatever plan this god had in mind. I find it to be a bit paradoxical, in fact. I've often heard, when I was a christian, that "we are joint heirs with Jesus". I'm not sure where that specific doctrine came from, scripturally, . . . but as been pointed out, there is no logic in "heirship of an undying king". The "son", therefore, becomes needless and nonsensical, . . . . IMO. It is a concept that I embraced, while in christianity, never even considering what it actually meant because of my upbringing.

I'm not wanting to be offensive to anyone's religion, I just wonder about this.

the inheritance is Eternal Life

Ro 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Ga 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:40 pm

DeavonReye wrote:I'm not following. Can you ellaborate? I'm not sure what you mean by "a Roman concept".

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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:46 pm

Sakhaiva wrote:I'm sort of lost on what Dave is saying as well.

It's very difficult for people who do not live under 'kingships' to understand the idea of Christ as 'King of King & Lord of Lords'. We live in a society where we have lots of choices; we do not have to be 'lorded over'.

I think the nature of Christ as King must be understood first. Jesus as King knelt at the feet of his followers and washed those feet. He associated with the 'wrong' sorts of people. These are very non-Roman concepts.


we are conflating concepts here:
Lord of Lords is in opposition to Caesar
Jesus washed the feet of his followers in His role as Suffering Servant (Is 53) which most Jews interpret to apply to Israel not to the Messiah
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:49 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:
Yet again, it doesn't answer what Deavon is asking: How can the son of an undying king be said to be a king himself? What is the point of referring to Jesus as a prince even when it's unquestionable that he will never inherit the throne as do earthly princes upon the death of their kingly fathers?

Deavon is right; this is simply nonsensical.

in that sense it refers to inheritance from DAVID and future rule over physical Israel

not to be confused with a Christian's inheritance of Eternal Life
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:51 pm

Have I missed any thing?
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:56 pm

DeavonReye wrote:The topic is more indepth than just the "how Jesus could be 'king' when the father never dies", . . . . but also the logic of "a son" when the person in question is stated to have had no beginning.

As for monotheism, there is evidence that the Hebrew people were polytheistic up unto around 600 bce. Kind of a side note, but biblical scholars have been working on this for some time now and have come to that conclusion. . . . and it may have actually sprung from an ancient Babylonian belief.

Certainly an odd and unique mythology, to be sure.

As to your later point, absolutely. There are traces of such beliefs scattered throughout the OT; even later than 600 BCE, we find stories of a continued polytheistic worship present among the Hebrew people, it seems likely that polytheism was not finally expunged until the Babylonian captivity.

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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:40 pm

When Jesus was baptized, and when emerged, god saying, "this is my beloved son . . . ". I can't see that as a literally true statement. I'm not saying that any deity was lying, but I must conclude that it is very possible that many of the Jesus stories were greatly overexagerated or even falsely manipulated to make it all seem so "supernatural". I just find the whole concept to be riddled with problems.
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by Davelaw on Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:11 pm

why?
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Re: What does "son of God" really mean?

Post by DeavonReye on Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:24 pm

Mostly for the reasons I've already pointed out. Many of the stories seem to be fabricated to inspire a level of awe.
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