Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by John T Mainer on Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:55 am

Willowcreek70633 wrote: bounce Strange T Marie, advise daughter to continue w the great grades. Schools that want her will be tearing down your door! VMI really sent bunches & bunches of advertising to our youngest son, James. I didn't know they kept women out til 96??? Wow. There is a lot of places in our society that have seemed to take a big step backwards these past 20 or so yrs. Not only schools, & corporations but the military IS one of them also.

Intergration of women into VMI came at about the same time as intergration of women into the combat arms. There is such a strong Christian fundamentalist investment in the US Military (especailly Air Force at the moment) that they really were very protective of their traditional values. The US lagged behind other first tier militaries largely because it had concentrated on quantity rather than quality for so long that differences in the population mean made their position defensible. For those militaries that had only admitted elite for generations, there was no defense for sexism when the mean for a soldier of any gender was so far above societal norms as to make the natural division soldier/civilian not male/female.

1996 was a long time ago now. There have been women intergrated into the school and the combat arms long enough to make a strong woman a good fit in VMI or any of the other military prep academies. There will always be discrimination from the dinosaurs against anyone or anything that is slightly different then their mythical ideal, but anyone weak enough to be affected by it has no place in leadership anyway. Its cold, but weak leaders=dead soldiers, so I am actually Ok with it.

Military schools are not for everybody, but for those who are driven and focused; those who have ambition, competativeness, a desire to serve in equal measure they are perfect. If your daughter is one of those people, then she would do well. If her style is different then that, then VMI would not be the best fit for her.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by tmarie64 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:17 am

John, the military is not about "equal measure". I'm sorry, but I've seen what "equal" is and I'm not buying that equal measure idea. If it were about "equal" anything promotions would be MERIT based, not point based. My husband, driven, competitive, ambitious..had to get out of the military because the "points" for his MOS were at 1790 of 1800. Meaning he had to get 1790 pts to be promoted. He was maxed out on his medals/awards and was only getting one point for each college class. He would NEVER have reached 1790.
He has gone from an entry level Biomedical Equip. Tech to manager over the Richmond accounts, 4 hospitals in 9 years. He was manager of 1 small account for 3 years. He never thought he'd get this job because he doesn't have the management experience.
Don't tell me that ambitious, driven people can succeed in the military, because it's just not true.
My daughter wants freedom to choose. She wants to CHANGE the world. Not follow orders. Military schools and life are not for movers and shakers, they are for those who don't mind following orders all their lives.
That's fine...for those who want it.
But DO NOT imply that because my kid doesn't want to be told what to wear, when to eat, where to be every second of every day that she is not driven, ambitious or motivated.
There is not room for ingenuity, change, or individuality in anything related to the military. And that is why she won't fit at VMI. NOT because she's not ambitious.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by tmarie64 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:22 am

Willow, the schools are already knocking on the door. She's heard from a bunch of schools. Tulane, Bridgewater, Mary Baldwin, William & Mary, Loyola...a couple schools in Hawaii, at least 10 Catholic universities...
Her GPA for her Sophomore year was 4.17, cumulative is 4.085 so far. She knows, keep that up and she can go almost anywhere she wants.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:28 am

Embarassed What the hell did I start????


Gees I'm so embarrassed I even stopped by to say Hello!

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by tmarie64 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:22 pm

Don't be embarrassed! She appreciates seeing the encouragement.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by John T Mainer on Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:05 pm

Yep, your point system is stupid, but your military adopted a corporate model for military advancement, which is like adopting a fish model for horse riding.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:21 pm

Very Happy Your right John T! And our military HAS changed, & NOT for the better. Trust me, I've seen & heard enough of the BS since Jan of this yr! I'm scared that they allow such stuff to happen. Yes, TMarie is right, its like women don't exist....the US military has really fallen off the bandwagon.
Your daughter can & will go as far as she wants...John still tells our daughter "The only thing holding her back from doing what she really wants outta life, is: herself!"

I hope your daughter is confident enough to validate her own existence!
Then along comes boys....LOL!
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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by tmarie64 on Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:20 am

Oh, she's her own woman. I have a sister and a niece who have never been "ME" they have always been someone's daughter/girlfriend/wife. That has driven me crazy.
I told them, "Until you're happy with the woman in the mirror, no one else can make you happy".
My girls both know that men, and relationships, can be great, but you have to be happy with yourself before anyone else can make you happy.
Marti hasn't dated, doesn't want to.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:03 pm

Very Happy I really hope T Marie that Marti stays focused in her goals. Sometimes we take back seats, side steps, & sometimes we get side tracked & side lined. Its the getting back up on your feet, & picking yourself up by yourself, that is the constant! To learn from mistakes not only others but your own. Raising those girls is such a tough job I know w Kat (my daughter) the past 3yrs have been very hard for all of our family to include her to understand & make sense outta of life. But she's a survivor! I'm very proud of my daughter, & I told her that just the other day, when we last spoke on the phone!
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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by tmarie64 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:00 pm

She has seen how dramatically our lives have changed since her dad decided to advance his education. She remembers living paycheck to paycheck...she does not like it. Our lives are far better since Scott got his Bachelor's and it's because he is working on his Master's that he got this job.
Marti knows the value and knows that it's easier to do it when Mom & Dad are willing to pay and she doesn't HAVE to work to keep a roof over her head and food on the table.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:52 pm

cheers You are so right TMarie! Education is the key! Doing well & placing your best foot forward! Always striving for things better, not necessarily means easier!
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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by tmarie64 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:02 pm

She's got a good head on her shoulders.

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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by Beautiful_Dreamer on Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:00 pm

Like SG said, there are *plenty* of schools that offer good ROTC programs if your daughter is ever interested. However, they *do* still look like a boys' club at times. I had an Air Force ROTC friend come into my room after some sort of interview with her male superiors...she was very upset because she felt as though she had to act like a man to be taken seriously. Another female cadet transferred into Air Force from Army because of the sexual harassment and disrespect she received in her old branch. When I dated someone in the same unit, I heard enough sexual jokes or comments made about some of the female officers (behind their backs) that I felt uncomfortable even going in the classroom at times. And these women aren't 'shrinking violets'...they commanded respect, at least to their faces. I'm not saying that all of the guys acted this way because there were definitely some very nice and 'gentlemanly' ones there, but sometimes there was just this...feeling. The fact that my boyfriend liked to 'show me off' at times didn't help. Of course, none of this was done in front of the commanding officers.

I wonder...Willow, is the actual *service* different in this way from ROTC? My father and uncle were both in the Navy for 20+ years and they didn't mention anything overt like this. My father was in Vietnam for a couple of tours, if that gives you an idea of timing. The ladies might still not have been allowed to do some of the jobs the men were, but they weren't treated like objects. Don't get me wrong, this still sucks.

Your daughter sound smart, no wonder she has colleges practically fighting over her.
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Re: Speaking of ignorance, with a smidge of arrogance thrown in for good measure...

Post by Willowcreek70633 on Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:56 am

scratch Hmm, how do I answer BD's question? You know, after this here little "tour of duty", Thank Goodness I'm retiring within the year! cheers People ARE funny. Civilians don't have a clue sometimes. And the military can be just like a college soriety/frat party. I guess the terms "ladies & gentlemen" have fallen by the way side drastically in both the civilian & military worlds. There was always a saying that the military portrays & mimics the society that they defend. True today as it was back during the Roman Empire or the Chinese Dynasties.Flash back during my 1st term (remember I'm the last of the WACs & 1st of the soldiers ERA) And yes my opinion again, woman had more of a voice back then...Equal Rights was fresh not only for pay but for performance of careers. IMO women have back slid since then. The soldiers (both women & men in their 40's & down to teens) I met @ Ft. Gordon, didn't know what a WAC/WAVE were! Why? I was a fictional character sort of like "Rosie the Riverter". Heard about but really, who cares no big deal. Why? Because there is no education concerning how women have attained such goals. The women during Desert Storm made a giant leap forward w being used not only as truck drivers & pilots within the front lines(in these Middle East wars there is NO front line)...for their efforts America was appaled.
I had a hitch doing ROTC (Reserve Officer's Training Corps)back in the 80's after I got out while attending McNeese State here in SWLA! I had fun, helping & training & seeing these young men & women try their best in school, & in the field! To learn military manuvere in a classroom then to apply it to a field environment is a test for anyone. There was a big rift between the military & education stemming from the Vietnam era & has continued up to the present. (Anyone remember Kent State?) The military has been slow to realize that they need intelligent leaders from every walk of life & every field to be militarily strong. There was a time in the 70's that I worked for the largest Corporation in the World (US Army)...now a days I can't say that for the militrary size has dipped drastically. This is NOT due to (war, economics, or a volunteer service). My opinion is: "It is due to Young American's have more avenues to attain success or goals than just college or the military. Lots of differnet opportunities, lots of new found knowledge, lot of technology at their fingertips! Compared to us old fogies they have a whole new world of challenges than just wage war & push for peace.I'm sorry I have rambled on as such, I wish I had more time to explain but 20yrs of service w a 16yr break between then & now...has opened up my eyes a lot. Also I 1st served in the Active Army; now a days I serve as a National Guardmen, the roles have changed drastically within those 2 aspects of service also. The World has changed as it should & so has America. Such is life.
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