They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

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They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:51 am

Watch this video.

Husband confronts abortion protesters
We're used to seeing videos of anti-abortion activists spewing venom in front of women's clinics, but rarely do we get to see the tables turned. Thanks to Aaron Gouveia, now we do.

He and his 16-weeks-pregnant wife went to a women's clinic in Brookline, Mass. for an abortion after discovering that their baby had a congenital deformity with no chance for survival. On their way in, they were confronted by images of dismembered fetuses and two women yelling, "You're killing your unborn baby!" Enraged, Gouveia decided to confront the protesters while his wife was in surgery, and he caught the whole interaction on his cellphone. In an essay for The Good Men Project, he admits to feeling a bit "foolish for getting so heated" in the moment, but who can blame him? Not to mention, any foolishness on his part is overshadowed by the Christian protesters' decidedly un-Christ-like behavior.

The video, which you'll find below, is a reminder that reproductive rights isn't just a women's issue, and Gouveia's essay makes a simple, genderless plea: "If you’re able, stand up to these bullies in nonviolent ways. Speak out. And if you have a camera, use it."


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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:53 am

This guy is FANTASTIC!!!! His wife is a very lucky lady to have a man who would stand up like this.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:57 am

More from the man in the first post.
I learned a few important things from this encounter. First, these people aren’t used to being confronted. They prey on the weak and they pounce on the wounded. It’s easy to berate people and shame them when they’re too beaten down to fight back. But I chose to do just that, and you can see what happened. ...

After I took a walk and calmed down, it was time to pick up my wife and go home. When we pulled out of the clinic, the protesters were gone, and a police cruiser was parked nearby with the lights flashing. My wife, still groggy from the surgery, managed to crack a little smile, and asked, “What did you do?”

I have no idea if it was my interaction with the protesters that got them to leave. I doubt it was, but my wife was convinced that was the case. At first, I didn’t think of it as a big deal, and I actually felt a little foolish for getting so heated.

This guy is my new hero.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:31 am

Very Happy

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:33 am

At the bottom of the second link it mentions that he is a journalist. Listening to him in the video, I thought he HAD to work with words. Reporter came to mind first, but teacher wasn't far behind.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:37 am

Well, first of all, they don't really want to stop Phelps. If they did, there are pretty effective ways to do that.

It is nice that people are finally starting to stand up to this type of crap though.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:59 am

I sympathize with the women outside because they feel they're really trying to do the right thing - Unlike Phelps, they're not there to be nasty or crude or be on TV, they really believe in their heart of hearts they can save a life.

That said, whether their actions and means are a good demonstration of that or not is a different story.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:44 pm

While I agree with you about their motive, TED, I cannot agree that they aren't trying to be crude.

I had to drive past people like that brandishing gory-looking plastic fetuses and those hideous signs with photos of same far too often when we lived in Wichita, particularly during Randall Terry's odious "Summer of Mercy" campaign. Those people even dragged toddlers and grade-school kids out there to carry crap like that, too.

They found out that intimidation is more effective with visual aids, and that is precisely as nasty and crude as the Phelps crew in my books. It's certainly deliberately cruel. And hauling their kids out there with them is child abuse.
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:35 pm

I have to disagree on the motive. They wouldn't stand and scream at perfect strangers knowing nothing about those people, if they were wanting to help. Calling me a baby killer, after I'd already been raped, did NOT make them seem like they were trying to do the right thing. Unless, of course, the "right thing" was traumatizing women who are already traumatized enough to decide to abort in the first place.
Waving faked up pictures and screaming names does no good.
For them it's all about controlling others. Not helping.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:40 pm

I think they really believe they may "save" someone from being a killer and these for the most part are followers not leaders-they hold up posters of Sacred Heart Mary-they must be doing this with the tacit consent of the local priest.
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:52 pm

Davelaw wrote:I think they really believe they may "save" someone from being a killer and these for the most part are followers not leaders-they hold up posters of Sacred Heart Mary-they must be doing this with the tacit consent of the local priest.
WRONG!!! That was a picture of Christ. Not Mary. Do some research, Dave. Most of the very aggressive protesters are NOT Catholic.

There were NO pictures of Mary. So, NO, they probably did not have any "approval", tacit or otherwise, from any priest because they were probably right wing fundie evangelical protestants.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:02 pm

tmarie64 wrote:
Davelaw wrote:I think they really believe they may "save" someone from being a killer and these for the most part are followers not leaders-they hold up posters of Sacred Heart Mary-they must be doing this with the tacit consent of the local priest.
WRONG!!! That was a picture of Christ. Not Mary. Do some research, Dave. Most of the very aggressive protesters are NOT Catholic.

There were NO pictures of Mary. So, NO, they probably did not have any "approval", tacit or otherwise, from any priest because they were probably right wing fundie evangelical protestants.

Well, it does really look like a version of the "Radiant Heart of Jesus" that is, as far as I know, a pretty Catholic version of the picture.

I'm not going to say one way or another if they had approval of the local priest, but since priests here are pretty outspokenly "pro-life", it wouldn't surprise me.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:04 pm

thats not an evangelical Jesus

and at least here; the aggresive ones are catholic

the rest of us are incrementalists/ believing you can not change the law until you first change the culture.
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:06 pm

many "right wing fundie evangelical protestants" believe pictures of Jesus to be a violation of the 10 commandments
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by tmarie64 on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:29 pm

Still not Mary. Never was, never will be.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:35 pm

I misspoke

evangelicals rarely hold up pictures of religious figures
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:44 pm

Davelaw wrote:I misspoke

evangelicals rarely hold up pictures of religious figures

Didn't really pay much attention to the fact that the woman to his left was holding a picture of Jesus.

I agree with you, Dave, that it's highly unlikely she was an evangelical. Idle speculation as to what her religion may be, although I've heard of some ultra-Catholics who do that kind of thing.
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:48 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:
Davelaw wrote:I misspoke

evangelicals rarely hold up pictures of religious figures

Didn't really pay much attention to the fact that the woman to his left was holding a picture of Jesus.

I agree with you, Dave, that it's highly unlikely she was an evangelical. Idle speculation as to what her religion may be, although I've heard of some ultra-Catholics who do that kind of thing.

more Mel Gibson old catholic types than your everyday American Catholic
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:52 pm

Davelaw wrote:
more Mel Gibson old catholic types than your everyday American Catholic

Or Nebraska Catholics. They're scary.
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:05 pm

Agreed that they'd likely resemble Mel Gibson's brand.

I knew a fair number of old school Catholics. Had some relatives who were (still have a cousin younger than I am to whom you do not mention the issue if you're smart). Despite their being vehemently anti-abortion, I can't imagine they would EVER think of behaving so uncharitably to women going into a clinic. After all, those clinics offer other services than just abortions.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:07 pm

As a side topic, did anyone watch this? http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-assassination-dr-george-till

It was very interesting, and shows you how much these groups promote violence, whether they mean to or not.

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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:26 pm

Oh, I think there's little question that they mean to promote and encourage such violence.

As was mentioned, both they and the Phelpses know what the law allows. Both groups are careful to hide their true intent behind its protections.

This was very difficult to watch.

I worked for a time with a woman who lived a short distance from the clinic. I remember her saying that it was horrible trying to leave her home and go anywhere. She said she always avoided walking past the clinic which meant she had to go some distance out of her way to get home. It was simply too upsetting to have them haranguing her even though she wasn't even going to the clinic. There were tears in her eyes when she added that she couldn't begin to imagine how difficult it was for women actually going there.

I just can't envision how Scott Roeder thought that God would approve his going into Dr. Tiller's CHURCH on a Sunday morning to kill. How CAN someone claiming to be a Christian believe that what he planned to do was not only virtuous but heroic? I simply can't begin to comprehend that kind of thinking.
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Re: They want to stop Phelps, but THIS is perfectly all right... SCREW THAT!

Post by DotNotInOz on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:19 am

I hesitated to click on the accompanying link to the site from the few phrases I saw of this statement when I googled for Operation Rescue. I don't trust those people not to infect my computer with spyware or a nasty virus.

Anyway, this is a portion of the purpose statement for OSA, Operation Save America, which appears to be an alternate name for OR.

OUR PURPOSE

Operation Save America unashamedly takes up the cause of preborn children in the name of Jesus Christ. We employ only biblical principles. The Bible is our foundation; the Cross of Christ is our strategy; the repentance of the Church of Jesus Christ is our ultimate goal....
[emphasis added]
Source

Biblical principles? Ya coulda fooled me. I have to wonder where any of St. Paul's speaking charitably to others can be found in how they harrass women going into clinics, target, stalk and harrass family members of abortion providers, do the same to clinic staff members, etc.

Would they employ similar techniques in an effort to stop known crack dealers from continuing to sell drugs? Of course not, because they know what would happen if they attempted that. Crack and meth sales aren't things that these hardcore Christians seem to care about very much.

I've seen some of the fliers Operation Rescue mailed to neighbors of staff members of Dr. Tiller's clinic. To NEIGHBORS??? People who merely live near someone working at the clinic?

Maybe I'm simply biased, but I see neither kindness nor charity in acts like those. Biblical principles? Some crucial ones are being ignored, IMO.
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