Missionary Debate thread

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:55 pm

Davelaw wrote:
DotNotInOz wrote:Yes, well, we know you're a Quaker trapped in an ex-Catholic's body, All...or something equally austere. Very Happy

All, is a viking born 1000 years too late *







* apologies to Jimmy Buffet


Here an internet dollar. You win.

Apology thread seem all the rage lately. Maybe I should start one. While everyone else seems to want to get along, I thrive on conflict.


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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:57 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:
Davelaw wrote:and I'm way on the other end of the spectrum being on the verge of total Iconoclism; when I go inside my ex's MS Lutheran; I freak out when I see all the statues: angels with swords, sinners in chains


as aside-my ex's Missouri Synod church really doesn't fit your description at all-they are more like High Church Baptists that happen to infant Baptize and sing hymns in german.

Hmmm, ya don't say? Well, admittedly, my experience with churches of that branch of Lutheranism is pretty limited, total of three I've been inside and several others described to me by a MS pastor's daughter who was a student of mine years ago.

The one in my old hometown was really very similar to the Catholic. The interior wasn't as elaborate, but the service order was nearly identical with many of the same prayers. Of course, when I was growing up, ours were in Latin and theirs definitely weren't.

My impression may be off; but it seems they use their confirmation process in way similiar to our weekly altar call to 'press for an individual commitment to Jesus Christ.
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:58 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
Davelaw wrote:
DotNotInOz wrote:Yes, well, we know you're a Quaker trapped in an ex-Catholic's body, All...or something equally austere. Very Happy

All, is a viking born 1000 years too late *







* apologies to Jimmy Buffet


Here an internet dollar. You win.

Apology thread seem all the rage lately. Maybe I should start one. While everyone else seems to want to get along, I thrive on conflict.



I understand: I'm one of Jimmy's pirates.
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:03 pm

We're those the ones that gave out candy to small children, or am I thinking of something else?
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:06 pm

Davelaw wrote:and I'm way on the other end of the spectrum being on the verge of total Iconoclism; when I go inside my ex's MS Lutheran; I freak out when I see all the statues: angels with swords, sinners in chains

Meant to add that I can understand your freaking.

My paternal grandparents had a sizable picture of the Sacred Hearts of both Jesus and Mary, images side-by-side and really pretty drippy-gruesome, hanging above the sideboard in their farmhouse kitchen when I was a kid. You really didn't want to look at that while trying to eat dinner! There was a much larger one of Jesus in Grandma's bedroom over her bed. I'm still amazed she managed to sleep decently after praying while looking at that equally gruesome one. Not that the hearts in those pictures looked like an actual human heart. They looked more like a meaty Valentine one wrapped with thorns and dripping blood. Just yukky!

I remember walking into a church in Colorado once behind a couple one of whom was carrying a young boy. The kid saw the statue of St. Stephen and freaked, started screaming and pointing at it so that it was pretty evident that's what set him off. Couldn't blame him, actually. The depictions of that saint are typically gross, as full of arrows as a pincushion and oftentimes liberally decorated with blood.

It's really no wonder that Protestants decided statues were idolatrous. Probably partially a self-protective reaction on the part of those who'd shuddered at gory statues before they broke away from the Catholic church.
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by DotNotInOz on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:07 pm

Weird! haven't had a double-post for a looong time.
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:10 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:.

It's really no wonder that Protestants decided statues were idolatrous. Probably partially a self-protective reaction on the part of those who'd shuddered at gory statues before they broke away from the Catholic church.

Could be: I think its more of a return to the original Iconoclasm of the OT.
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:14 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:We're those the ones that gave out candy to small children, or am I thinking of something else?
funny

Buffet's A pirate looks at forty

Yes, I am a pirate 200 years too late
the cannons don't thunder
there is nothing to plunder
an over 40 victim of fate
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:28 pm

I thought you'd get it.

Wink

I wonder if the feeling of being "born to late" is a common one?

all
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:38 pm

it has to be fairly common

its probably a bi-product of literacy

if you can read about other times; you can probably find one you identify with
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:42 pm

Good point.

I do often daydream about being on a Viking raiding party or something.

But then I think, I like being warm, having enough to eat, and watching the occasional tv show.

The point is, I can really identify with other times, but, I can't say I'd want to really go back to them and trade the benefits of this time.

all

PS, now if that isn't hijacking the thread from the OP, I don't think we're gonna find an example....
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:51 pm

just like, i need hot showers and cold air conditioning
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:56 pm

Definitely the hot showers. I think AC in the northern Scandinavian countries might be redundant. At least most of the year.

There are enough churches around for me to pillage now though....

Nah, it's probably frowned upon.



Very Happy
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Davelaw on Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:04 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:Definitely the hot showers. I think AC in the northern Scandinavian countries might be redundant. At least most of the year.

There are enough churches around for me to pillage now though....

Nah, it's probably frowned upon.



Very Happy

but I'm a pirate
A/C = carribean
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:10 pm

I know, like a typical viking, I'm just thinking of myself.

I don't think I could stand the carribean in winter without AC
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by MaineCaptain on Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:04 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:

Meant to add that I can understand your freaking.

My paternal grandparents had a sizable picture of the Sacred Hearts of both Jesus and Mary, images side-by-side and really pretty drippy-gruesome, hanging above the sideboard in their farmhouse kitchen when I was a kid. You really didn't want to look at that while trying to eat dinner! There was a much larger one of Jesus in Grandma's bedroom over her bed. I'm still amazed she managed to sleep decently after praying while looking at that equally gruesome one. Not that the hearts in those pictures looked like an actual human heart. They looked more like a meaty Valentine one wrapped with thorns and dripping blood. Just yukky!

Now you are in my neck of the woods. My grandmother had the Sacred heart of Jesus, and one of Mary in the living room. Three pictures all together. For years. One day one of the three pictures was gone, she had given one away.
On one side of my family , at least those I actually know are Catholic.
I have a protestant wing, but I am sadly not in touch with them. (I don't know where they are)

I remember when I was 6 or 8 years old, my Mother brought about nine different relatives different 3-d religious pictures, one was of the crucifixion (sp?)
It was gory.

She was not interested in the images, but she knew the family would be, and they were pleased. It is odd, because they are the gentlest sweetest people. All were quite elderly.

I have to say, although not interested in the religious practices. I do love the old Churches, they are beautiful.


Last edited by MaineCaptain on Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : need to clarify something)

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Beribee on Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:08 pm

I love the historic New England protestant churches. The white ones with steeples....I love the simplicity of them.

My mother converted to Catholicism several years ago (can you guess how happy that made my Baptist family?? LOL). She now has one of those pictures on her wall with the bleeding hearts of Jesus and Mary, too. It's kinda freaky looking, I have to say.

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:25 pm

The churches around here are mostly boxes.

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Beribee on Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:29 pm

Boxes??? What do you mean....like a box store?

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:30 pm

Brick buildings that look like they are offices. Or storefronts. Store fronts are very popular here. And warehouses.

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by Beribee on Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:53 pm

Really? I think I've only seen one or two that were storefronts. We have one other that looks like a really fancy office building.....but almost all of the others look like regular churches.

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by DotNotInOz on Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:06 am

sacrificialgoddess wrote:Brick buildings that look like they are offices. Or storefronts. Store fronts are very popular here. And warehouses.

Haven't noticed nearly as many of those weird storefront ones here as we had in Wichita. There blissfully aren't many at all of the Praise Jesus Washed In the Blood of the Lamb Sanctified By Grace Bible Blessed Churches in St. L. I've seen one or two with names half that long, but that's it.

I think it's something to do with that part of the country, SG. The little bitty town where I lived before moving to Wichita had TWO storefront churches, peculiarly founded by two people who'd left the same denominational fundamentalist church. The church they'd been in wasn't fundamental enough for either from what I heard.

As for building style, I was not at all fond of the new building the Wichita UU's put up. It looked like a Monopoly house with a cereal box laid flat alongside it. Stark. I honestly considered quitting the church, that building was so blazin' UGLY.

Beribee wrote:Really? I think I've only seen one or two that were storefronts. We have one other that looks like a really fancy office building.....but almost all of the others look like regular churches.

I'd guess a lot more New England churches are historic buildings than you find in the Plains States. ????

Are there many pastor-founded cultish churches up there? Lots of those in the central U.S., a good many of which locate in office buildings or warehouses. Cheap to lease, I suspect.

Once they get larger, then they tend to move into a building a more mainstream church has vacated.
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by gillyflower on Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:23 am

We've got storefront churches around here, too. They are new churches that have split from the older ones and if they do well they move into churches that sell their buildings. Some do build the warehouse style buildings though. A few churches have taken over old strip malls so they can have stores as well. They are the ones that have their own ATMs.

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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by AutumnalTone on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:16 am

DotNotInOz wrote: Stark. I honestly considered quitting the church, that building was so blazin' UGLY.

My mother will be leaving the church she's been part of for over thirty years because of that exact thing. The former church burned a couple of years ago. (Well, the main sanctuary and old sanctuary congolerate building. The other buildings on the property were untouched.) Instead of building on the existing property, some members pushed to buy new property across town by the new WalMart building and they're now putting up a church that looks like corporate office space for a not-very-imaginative company. Mother won't be attending at the new building--she wants to attend a church, not an office. She's been looking at other churches to attend for a few months, now.
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Re: Missionary Debate thread

Post by tmarie64 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:30 am

I know what your mother's feeling, AT. I have driven out of my way to attend church in another parish because I positively HATE those ugly round churches.
Some of them are beautiful, unfortunately, too many are not. So far, I've only seen one that I liked.
I realize the mass is the same, no matter where it is...But, it's hard to sit in a building I hate and enjoy anything. It's distracting.

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