Surrender of Attachment to Results

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Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by Sakhaiva on Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:41 pm

"Better indeed is knowledge than mechanical practice. Better than
knowledge is meditation. But better still is surrender of attachment to
results, because there follows immediate peace." ~ Bhagavad Gita

My Yoga practice has always been about surrender (which is funny, as my Christian practice - too - focuses on surrender; but I digress) so I readily believe this scriptural passage to be a 'universal truth.'

Do you believe surrender is greater than knowledge?

Peace!
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by gillyflower on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:01 pm

No, I don't. Surrender isn't a part of my religion. I think it might be a part of the Abrahamic religions and others though, just not all of them. Then again, peace is not the goal of my religion. It is a relationship with the gods.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by Gorm_Sionnach on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:05 pm

No, quite the opposite. I understand the reasoning behind it (both from the Hindu and Christian perspectives), however I also understand that such a notion is something I would never accept. I find the notion of surrender as a virtue, problematic. I am more familiar with the perspective from a Christian angle, that being the "Jesus take the wheel" colloquialism. As I understand the Hindu perspective has more to do with surrendering (or accepting) "what is", which has to do with not being concerned with attachments (or in this case 'results'). In each case the notion of surrender has to do with accepting an individuals limitations and that by accepting this, and that a higher power/will/etc., is necessary to further salvation/ understanding/ the good life.

I come from a considerably different outlook, and so the idea of surrender is not something which appeals to me. I draw much strength and wisdom from the dé ochus andé, but they don't hold my hand, nor do they expect me to prostrate myself before them; they expect me to stand.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:17 am

I believe surrendering to attachment to results is everything. If you're attached to results, you will be happy or sad depending on the outcome. Peace comes from internal happiness, and the Gita is right.

This passage isn't about lying down and being trampled; I think the Gita asks one to put forth effort (though I don't know that much about the Hindu faith). The point is, even when you try your best, sometimes you lose- and that's okay too.

This passage is very Buddhist IMO; surrendering attachment is one of the major steps on the path toward enlightenment.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by gillyflower on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:27 am

This just reaffirms my belief that all religions are not One. Smile

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:09 am

gillyflower wrote:This just reaffirms my belief that all religions are not One.

I've no attachment either way.


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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:29 pm

"It is better to do violence, if violence is in your heart, then to be non-violent out of impotence."

--Ghandi.


I actually don't think that pacifism, surrender, non-violence, and general meekness are parts of the major religions.

When the Gita says "But better still is surrender of attachment to
results, because there follows immediate peace." it does not mean that you should surrender, and cease to try, it means that you shouldn't get upset when what you try fails. Don't dwell on them, learn from them and move on.

Like in Christianity. When they said "the meek shall inherit the earth" they did not mean that you should be meek, but it was instead a message of hope for those who already were meek.

all
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by Sakhaiva on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:57 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

When the Gita says "But better still is surrender of attachment to
results, because there follows immediate peace." it does not mean that you should surrender, and cease to try, it means that you shouldn't get upset when what you try fails. Don't dwell on them, learn from them and move on.

Like in Christianity. When they said "the meek shall inherit the earth" they did not mean that you should be meek, but it was instead a message of hope for those who already were meek.

all


This is how I read passages involving 'surrender' as well ALL; I very much like how you put it.

I think the idea of 'surrender' frightens people because we don't want to be taken advantage of (fear). And there certainly are enough examples of religious leaders who feed off that misconception (like Sai Baba in India). But that's not the type of surrender the Gita's talking about, as you put into words.

Consider, I've been having some stress at work because I made some errors my second day day on the job (said errors took 3 weeks to surface) and my confidence just crumbled. When I happened upon this passage, and it reminded me of similar Christian writings, I was able to let my errors go and get back to working (with new data in my head, so I don't repeat the same error)

We aim for success but do not allow the desire to control us.


TED, it is very Buddhist sounding, isn't it Smile
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:44 pm

I think surrender of attachment is one of the major goals in Buddhism, whereas it plays a more passive role in Christianity (and other faiths?) I know it was something I had given up in recent years and realized that was the root of so much of my suffering, which is why I came back to the teachings of Buddhism.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:45 pm

Sakhaiva wrote:
This is how I read passages involving 'surrender' as well ALL; I very much like how you put it.

I think the idea of 'surrender' frightens people because we don't want to be taken advantage of (fear). And there certainly are enough examples of religious leaders who feed off that misconception (like Sai Baba in India). But that's not the type of surrender the Gita's talking about, as you put into words.

There is that "win at all costs" mentality in society too. I remember a conversation I was having with my brother on time. He was having a disagreement with his GF at the time. I remember asking him if he thought that was a hill worth dying for. He replied that he would like to win a hill, just once.

I don't think we, as people, do a good job of picking our battles. The idea of passive resistance is one of losing the battle, intentionally, to win the war.


Sakhaiva wrote:
Consider, I've been having some stress at work because I made some errors my second day day on the job (said errors took 3 weeks to surface) and my confidence just crumbled. When I happened upon this passage, and it reminded me of similar Christian writings, I was able to let my errors go and get back to working (with new data in my head, so I don't repeat the same error)

It was your second day. Everyone makes mistakes, its what we learn from them that is important.

Sakhaiva wrote:

We aim for success but do not allow the desire to control us.



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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:18 pm

I know that picking your battles is the only way to win in the workforce- I imagine it's the same in marriage and other areas of life too.

http://viewonbuddhism.org/attachment.html <- Some of my favorite Buddhist views on attachment.

In the South of India, people used to catch monkeys in a very special way. Actually they let monkeys catch themselves. What they did is cutting a small hole in a coconut, just large enough for a monkey to put its hand in. Next, you fix the coconut to a tree, and fill it with a sweet. The monkey smells the sweet, squeezes its hand into the coconut, grabs the sweet and .... finds that the fist does not fit through the hole. Now the trick is, that the last thing the monkey will think of is to let go of the sweet; and it holds itself prisoner. Nothing could be easier for a human being who comes and catches it.


The site also includes, at the end, Antidotes for Attachment. I greatly appreciate this:

ANTIDOTE 1 - Observe Yourself: Do I exaggerate positive qualities of things I am attached to, are they really worth all my troubles? Is it really worth to work hard for days, weeks or months to have an hour of fun?
ANTIDOTE 2 - Use Your Inner Wisdom: Discover how exaggerated attachment is and how desire works against oneself. Try to be wiser than the monkey and let go of the candy to be free.
ANTIDOTE 3 - Reflect on the Unsatisfactory Nature of Existence. This is also called the First Noble Truth. How much fun is fun really, and how much is it forgetting the pain? Do desires ever stop or is it an endless job to fulfil them?
ANTIDOTE 4 - Reflect on Impermanence. How important is the person or object: everything will end someday, people die, things break.
ANTIDOTE 5 - Reflect on the Problems of Attachment. Lying in the sun is great, but it quickly leads to sunburn. Eating nice food is great, but it leads to indigestion and obesity. Driving around in big cars is great, but how long do I have to work to enjoy this?
ANTIDOTE 6 - Reflect on bodily attraction (lust for sex). Loving someone is great, but what happens when the "honeymoon-days" are over? But what is the body really? What more is it than a skin bag filled with bones, flesh, disgusting organs and fluids?
ANTIDOTE 7 - Reflect on the Results of Attachment. Greed and craving lead to stealing and all kinds of crime, including war. Addiction to alcohol and drugs are simply forms of strong craving; they destroy the addict and the surroundings. Uncontrolled lust leads to sexual abuse. The feeling of greed, craving and lust in themselves can be easily seen as forms of suffering.
ANTIDOTE 8 - Reflect on Death. What are all objects of attachment worth at "the moment of truth" or death?
ANTIDOTE 9 - Emptiness. The ultimate antidote to attachment and all other negative emotions is the realisation of emptiness.
This is regarding general attachment, not specifically attachment to results as the thread started... didn't mean to sidetrack. But I think some of these can be applied to controlling the attachment to results.
Part of what made me so miserable after my breakup was the fact that I was attached to the outcome that didn't happen. I thought it was going to last forever, and would result in permanent partnership, permanent stability and eternal joy. Wrong! I had all my future held on one plate, and when it crashed and broke I was devastated and I'm just now recovering.
Personal, I know, but that's a prime example of 'attachment to results'. It's what happens when you demand a goal or future to be one thing and the reality ends up another. It's total, needless, suffering.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by maya3 on Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:55 am

Hi Everyone!
Sorry that I have not been here much, I've been very creative with my writing lately and have not had a lot of time.

When it comes to surrender and the Gita, for me it means that we should help and serve our fellow human beings and all other creatures on the planet.
If you do this only so that you will get good karma and/or approval and admiration from your friends then you are not really helping for the right reasons. You should help because it's needed not because you'll get something out of it.

I also think that surrendering in meditation will help you. It's very easy to get too attached to how you think it should be, and that in turn hinders you from really getting there.

Maya
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:09 am

Maya! Very Happy We miss you!

Thanks for your views through Hinduism. It's always good to hear your vantage point.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by maya3 on Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:40 pm

Thank you TED!
It's nice to be here again.
Have I missed any interesting threads that I should catch up on?

How are YOU?

Maya
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by DotNotInOz on Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:48 pm

Well, I can attest to there being a thread or two that you may prefer not to catch up on... Very Happy

It's a message board. What else is new?

Anyway, sour grapes aside, welcome back. Good to see you again.
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by maya3 on Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:08 pm

DotNotInOz wrote:Well, I can attest to there being a thread or two that you may prefer not to catch up on... Very Happy

It's a message board. What else is new?

Anyway, sour grapes aside, welcome back. Good to see you again.

Very Happy
Ok I'll make sure to avoid those.

Maya
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by John T Mainer on Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:20 pm

I really couldn't surrender my attachment because that implies that all outcomes are equally acceptable. As sometimes I am willing to kill or die over the results, clearly not all outcomes are equivalent to me.

Asatru is not a faith that looks at cutting its attachment to this world as being a necessity to spiritual progress; in fact to connect with the deeper parts of ourselves we look to our duties in and connections to this world.

Our own faith teaches that it is in the struggle that we find our measure, and our gods do not promise us sucess in these struggles, only that we will not be alone in the facing. It is not the result that is judged, but how much of yourself you gave to the struggle. Clearly if we are expected to give our all, we cannot truly be said to be surrendering our attachment, rather we are celebrating it.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:32 pm

Maya,

I'm well, making it anyway, and still around.

I think it's interesting to note how some philosophies like mine are adamant about learning and practicing the surrender of attachment, while some like Asatru are the polar opposite.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:40 pm

We were talking about attachment today.. not attachment to results, but just attachment. I am very, very attached to a certain part of my lover. (No, not that part!) Hair. Mildly long, soft, slightly curly brown locks that make me melt and are getting choopped off tomorrow. It's one of my favorite physical things (if not my favorite) so I keep trying to tell myself it's a good opportunity to practice detachment...

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by maya3 on Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:00 pm

TED,

Yikes, oh no. Can you change this persons mind?

I'm EXTREMELY attached to my Iphone..oh man, I've never been so attached to something. I LOVE it, really it should have it's own bed with a blanket next to mine. It might as well be a pet.
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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:19 pm

Hahaha!



I want to, but I don't need to create resentment and force my desires and selfish wants. I made it clear I'm distraught and inflicted enough guilt as it is.

It's only hair.

*sniffle*

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by maya3 on Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:12 pm

LOL!

That's me, only I'm married, but I can have two husbands, one regular and one Iphone Smile

I know it's only hair, you'll be ok. But I feel your pain

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:28 pm

Just be happy you've got a honey, baby brother. You are much happier when you are in a romance when your not, aren't you? Wink

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:09 pm

No, not really, but that's a whole different psychological horror drama. lol.

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Re: Surrender of Attachment to Results

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:55 am

Well, you seem much happier when I am talking to you, anyway. There is a smile there. I can see it!

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