New Push for Accountability?

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New Push for Accountability?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:27 am

This is a continuation of a conversation some of us had here a few weeks ago about whether people were the same in RL as they were online. There is a development going on with World of Warcraft and Starcraft where they say they intend to use the real names of anyone who posts on their forum in order to cut down on trolling. The thread has, naturally, exploded with comments about how bad that idea is. I'm a bit confused about if the names will be used within the games.

On a related note, I read about a push in the US to have some kind of Real ID thing where everyone who posts online can be tracked down. I think it was in conjunction with a cyber bullying incidence. I didn't pay it any attention at the time because I thought, oh that won't fly, but with this move by WoW I'm wondering if we are headed in that direction. Free speech is guaranteed but is anonymity? Should it be?

My own religion has a long history of using aliases or craft names to preserve one's anonymity. There are crazies out there and frankly, I think I have a right to keep my interests, as long as I'm not breaking the laws of the land, private from employers and family for that matter.

So what do you think?


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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by John T Mainer on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:07 am

Well I only post anywhere under my own name, so I would have to agree. When you can seperate your self from your deeds and words there is a temptation to follow your urges more than you would if your sense of shame balanced your sense of outrage.

I would be lying if I said there had not been consequences IRL. For an aside, being the face of local Paganism and the Asatru face of opposition to racism can net you an interesting set of blowhard foes. That being said, I live free of fear of discovery, free of blackmail, free to say in casual conversation anything I would type on my keyboard.

I had experiences with employers who "found out" what I was, and honestly, it is so much simpler to be open than to live in fear of discovery.

Those who know my words know that my name being known does not limit my ability to argue forcefully (and act the ass upon occassion), but it does mean I am held responsible before my family, my kindred, my Regiment, my gods, and myself for ALL of my words.

Of course I am a heavily armed 250lb ex-infantry and competative martial artist, so I guess I have to admit people who meet me feel just a tad more restrained in their wrath than those who might seek out Gilly.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:10 am

As you can imagine, I think it's fairly awful.

One of the best benefits of the Internet is it's anonymity; the freedom to express ideas/wants/opinions/personality without fear of getting it mingled with the real life.

There are ways of linking the web-self with the real-self, like IP addresses, so if someone abuses their anonymity (like say, on a web forum, chat room, or running an illegal website) they can be blocked or arrested or whatever needs to be done. There are law enforcement teams that work to link web-self with real-self when necessary.

I guess it's that old adage of a few people ruin it for everyone else?

I've fought Real ID for some time - along with the problems of Big Brother it also takes away transgender rights - so you were born a boy in December 1973? Well, nobody knew - even your husband - but now everyone from your employer to check out girl gets to see.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by tmarie64 on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:21 am

I'm with Joey. I've talked about things that have gone on in my past that I don't want some people to know. I have one sister in law that I DESPISE. I don't want her knowing I've had an abortion. I don't want her knowing EXACTLY what I think of her because she is my brother's wife, and while I don't give two turds about her feelings, I love my brother and would just as soon he not be dragged into her bullshit with me.
I haven't lied, there are just some things that my coworkers don't need to know.
There are some things that the casual acquaintance doesn't need to know....

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:40 am

Yes Tina, there's really not.


In the end, spiritually/karmically/morally/mentally speaking, we're all held accountable. But that doesn't mean everything we say think and feel needs to be made known that it belongs to our person.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:46 am

I'm of two or three - maybe more! - minds about this, myself. I see the point about using one's name and being accountable on forums where a lot of flaming and trolling goes on. On the the other hand, where are the mods? Look at us. If we do our jobs and remove things that are against the ROC then we have a lot fewer problems. People don't keep trying and if they do, they get banned.

Wow's solution, in my opinion, is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If trolls find out a person's RL name they could cause problems for them at work or with their family or even the law - or cause problems for people with similar names who aren't even connected. One person suggested that there would be a lot of pizza orders called in for other people and I can imagine that happening. It isn't just a question of people finding out things you'd rather keep private.

On the other hand, I sure would like the parents of, not to mention the kids themselves, kids who are growing up thinking it is okay to cyber bully, troll and flame women, gays or people of other religions, color, others they perceive as weaker and those with handicaps to get a wake up call. I read the local rants and raves and comments on newspaper articles as well and I wonder if they would say those awful things if their real name was used.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:48 am

'Tis true - I used my real name and was published in the national print of the USA Today, and you'd better believe it got some flack.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by weirdfaery on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:50 am

Wow, that's a horrible idea. There are things that I can say on the internet that I never want my family to know. My aunts are huge homophobes, if they knew I was bi they'd never speak to me again. Not to mention my uncle the murderer who thinks witches are evil.

Gilly and TED you guys posted while i was typing (and chasing the baby) and made good points.
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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:51 am

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2010/0708/Newest-friends-on-Facebook-Pakistan-militants. While we're on the subject.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:52 am

weirdfaery wrote:Wow, that's a horrible idea. There are things that I can say on the internet that I never want my family to know. My aunts are huge homophobes, if they knew I was bi they'd never speak to me again. Not to mention my uncle the murderer who thinks witches are evil.

Gilly and TED you guys posted while i was typing (and chasing the baby) and made good points.

You too, aye?

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by weirdfaery on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:04 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:
weirdfaery wrote:Wow, that's a horrible idea. There are things that I can say on the internet that I never want my family to know. My aunts are huge homophobes, if they knew I was bi they'd never speak to me again. Not to mention my uncle the murderer who thinks witches are evil.

Gilly and TED you guys posted while i was typing (and chasing the baby) and made good points.

You too, aye?

Gods, yes. I don't think my eldest aunt is able to have a conversation without adding a homophobic slur. She even judges little children who aren't one hundred percent her version of gender conformity. Drives me nuts.
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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:07 am

You don't think we're related, do you?

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by weirdfaery on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:20 am

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:You don't think we're related, do you?

Be afraid. Be very afraid
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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:52 am

Well, most people here know my name, where I live, my beliefs, my politics, and my occupation or if I recognize ya, and you ask, I'm not embarrassed to tell ya.

I'm not embarrassed about any of them. If people IRL ask, and they are close enough to know the answer, I'll probably tell them too.

I'm not concerned about being able to take on anyone that would be foolish enough to attack me IRL. I am a 6' 275 lb power lifting martial artist who is armed at all times, and of a belief system and philosophy where I am not going to consider the moral and philosophical ramifications of taking out something I consider a threat to my well being, or the well being of my friends and family.

I don't say this to "sound tough" anyone who doesn't believe me is welcome to test this.

However, I do feel that ideas as expressed on these type of boards should be separate from the person who is posting them. The idea should stand on it's own, so to speak.

In the internet, we can realize the idea of the philosophy of freedom of speech. Here their are no races, no nationalities, no creeds, other than what you choose to tell someone about.

As with all other expressions of true freedom, their is danger inherent as well.

Will we trade security for freedom on this aspect as well? It remains to be seen.

As Mal said of "Firefly"

"Gettin awful crowded in my sky...."

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:02 pm

OT for the Firefly fans. Nathan Fillion just posted this picture, saying "Together again."


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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:35 pm

OMG!!!!! There damn well better be a new Firefly movie in the works, if they are going to release that photo!

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:33 pm

I had to cheer a little when, in the Halloween episode of "Castle" he dressed up as a "space cowboy" in the opening scene......
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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:34 pm

sacrificialgoddess wrote:OMG!!!!! There damn well better be a new Firefly movie in the works, if they are going to release that photo!

I'm not sure how they can do that? They did kill off half their cast....
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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by John T Mainer on Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:43 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I had to cheer a little when, in the Halloween episode of "Castle" he dressed up as a "space cowboy" in the opening scene......

I just watched that last night (killing off muscle spasm). I just about died when Castle came in with his Captain Mal shirt on. I wanted to check the loading zone for Serenity. Man but I would love to see them hat up again and take the old Firefly out for a miniseries or movie again.....

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:56 pm

John T Mainer wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I had to cheer a little when, in the Halloween episode of "Castle" he dressed up as a "space cowboy" in the opening scene......

I just watched that last night (killing off muscle spasm). I just about died when Castle came in with his Captain Mal shirt on. I wanted to check the loading zone for Serenity. Man but I would love to see them hat up again and take the old Firefly out for a miniseries or movie again.....

Me too.

I don't know how they'd do it, but hey, if ya can't do something smart, do something right...

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:02 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
sacrificialgoddess wrote:OMG!!!!! There damn well better be a new Firefly movie in the works, if they are going to release that photo!

I'm not sure how they can do that? They did kill off half their cast....

Nobody said it had to be in chronological order.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:03 pm

Good point.

It might be interesting to see how Inara and Book left Serenity....
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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:04 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:
John T Mainer wrote:
allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:I had to cheer a little when, in the Halloween episode of "Castle" he dressed up as a "space cowboy" in the opening scene......

I just watched that last night (killing off muscle spasm). I just about died when Castle came in with his Captain Mal shirt on. I wanted to check the loading zone for Serenity. Man but I would love to see them hat up again and take the old Firefly out for a miniseries or movie again.....

Me too.

I don't know how they'd do it, but hey, if ya can't do something smart, do something right...


I had a nerdgasm.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:06 pm

I can honestly say that I identified more with Firefly and Serenity more than any other show or movie.

If that makes me a "nerd" I'll wear it with pride.

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Re: New Push for Accountability?

Post by gillyflower on Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:18 pm

The lines for the Firefly panels wrap around the block a time or two at DragonCon, meaning that there are a lot of people who really, really liked Firefly and miss it and it is still a big draw.

I wear my Firefly lanyard are work with pride. Smile

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