The Non-Hypocritical Christian

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The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by Sakhaiva on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:04 pm

It seems that the word *Christian* is, more often than not, preceded by the word *hypocritical* Trolling around online, I find quotes like
this:

"yes i do beleive most christians are hypocritical. if someone asks my religion i usaully say something like non-practicing christian"



Very rarely do I hear/read anything about the *hypocritical Zen Buddhist* or the *hypocritical Druid* (though chances are extremely good that the world does, in fact, have a good supply of each.)

So I ask three questions:

  • Do you, like the writer I quoted, believe that "most Christians are hypocritical"?
  • What does the Non-Hypocritical Christian look like?
  • Why do you think people focus on those Christians who appear to be hypocritical, while seeming to ignore those who are more authentic?

Looking forward to your thoughts!

Peace.
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:30 pm

Christians hypocritical? No.
Christianity hypocritical? Yes, absolutely.

Let me explain....

Religions in general are a way with getting in touch with the divine. Of becoming at peace with the world, yourself, and all of existence.

Christianity does not do this. Other paths revere the leaders associated with them because they have shown them the way. Christianity reveres its leader because it believes he was the way. It remains the only religion out there that tells it's followers to sit down in the clearing because someone else will make the journey for them.

Christians by and large aren't hypocrites for taking the easy way out. Even if I feel that it is wrong and will be unsuccessful. Christianity is for promoting itself as a way out when it is not, and for that it is hypocritical.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:31 pm

That sounded harsher than I meant it.

Ya know I care, right Sak?
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:27 pm

I think the big problem we have is because we've grown up in the West. Most everyone in America is a "Christian" at birth, by default, whether they're interested in it or have any understanding of it or not. Because of that, everyone readily announces and proclaims their Awesome Christianity, yet live however they want. It's a condition of everyone proclaims, but few are. The people in America who are things other than Christian typically sought it out and attempted to practice it. I think in the east, for example, "everybody" is Buddhist and that doesn't mean following the Path, just being born into a Buddhist family.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by Sakhaiva on Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:28 pm

LOL ALL! I'm a fan of the bear. But this is a debate board.... so here I go (brace yourself, I can be pretty scary on debate boards)



Religions in general are a way with getting in touch with the divine.
Of becoming at peace with the world, yourself, and all of existence.

Christianity
does not do this. Other paths revere the leaders associated with them
because they have shown them the way. Christianity reveres its leader
because it believes he was the way. It remains the only religion out
there that tells it's followers to sit down in the clearing because
someone else will make the journey for them.


A: I'm a bit confused... how does Christianity fail to help people get in touch with the divine; of becoming at peace with the world, yourself and all of existence? The one thing Christianity has offered me is peace. It's like a soothing balm for my worldly panic.

Consider the writings of Brother Lawrence, the prayers attribute to St Francis. Christianity offers peace that passes understanding... which is a great relief.

B:
It remains the only religion out
there that tells it's followers to sit down in the clearing because
someone else will make the journey for them.

Are you referring to Psalm 23? Luke 9:23 speaks quite differently.... as do the Beatitudes.

Christians by and
large aren't hypocrites for taking the easy way out. Even if I feel
that it is wrong and will be unsuccessful. Christianity is for
promoting itself as a way out when it is not, and for that it is
hypocritical.

Leo Tolstoy is an amazing person; I really enjoy the full spectrum of his life. He started so wealthy... over time he converted to Christianity and took the Beatitudes literally. Following his writings, I can assure you that he didn't take the easy way.

Sara Miles, one of my modern hero's, is an atheist-turned-Christian; she wound up starting a Food Pantry ministry in San Francisco that feeds thousands of homeless each week; no one is turned away. The work it takes to obtain the food, prepare it for people to come in and "shop" for what they need certainly isn't easy.

And we cannot forget Bonhoeffer. (Again, someone who took the Beatitudes literally)
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:17 pm

Sakhaiva wrote:LOL ALL! I'm a fan of the bear. But this is a debate board.... so here I go (brace yourself, I can be pretty scary on debate boards)

Oh gods, this is a debate board, isn't it.....?

Have you ever seen me on a debate board? There is a reason my avatar on those other sights is a polar bear standing in a ring of blood.....



Sakhaiva wrote:


A: I'm a bit confused... how does Christianity fail to help people get in touch with the divine; of becoming at peace with the world, yourself and all of existence?

Let me answer that question with a question. I understand it can be a logical fallacy to make arguments personal, but how exactly have you become more in touch with what you call the divine? Have you personally experienced the one that you call god in some physically interactive sort of manner?

Sakhaiva wrote:
The one thing Christianity has offered me is peace. It's like a soothing balm for my worldly panic.

It may seem that way. Believing that someone or something else is in control and handing that control over to it will often have a calming effect. However, that is not real peace. It is not an understanding of the self, the divine, and one's relationship within it.


Sakhaiva wrote:
Consider the writings of Brother Lawrence, the prayers attribute to St Francis. Christianity offers peace that passes understanding... which is a great relief.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to. I appear to have stumbled on to a Christianity debate board, and that is my bad, but I don't have any interest in going through Christian information anymore. I spent time learning what I don't believe, and why I don't believe it.

Sakhaiva wrote:
Are you referring to Psalm 23? Luke 9:23 speaks quite differently.... as do the Beatitudes.

Not really. They appear that way on the surface, but are referring to different aspects. Psalm 23 refers to the relationship with the god, Luke 9:23 speaks of how to go about having that relationship with the god, and the beatitudes are about the Hebrews relationship with the Romans.



Sakhaiva wrote:

Leo Tolstoy is an amazing person; I really enjoy the full spectrum of his life. He started so wealthy... over time he converted to Christianity and took the Beatitudes literally. Following his writings, I can assure you that he didn't take the easy way.

I'm sure it would seem that way. Then again, it is much easier to renounce worldly possessions, than to understand why worldly possessions have the importance that they do.

Sakhaiva wrote:

Sara Miles, one of my modern hero's, is an atheist-turned-Christian; she wound up starting a Food Pantry ministry in San Francisco that feeds thousands of homeless each week; no one is turned away. The work it takes to obtain the food, prepare it for people to come in and "shop" for what they need certainly isn't easy.

Sure it is! It's much easier to feed people than to figure out why they are hungry in the first place, and much easier to figure out why they are hungry than to really figure out why you are so attached to the fact of them being hungry in the first place.

Sakhaiva wrote:

And we cannot forget Bonhoeffer. (Again, someone who took the Beatitudes literally)

What makes you think he was spiritually enlightened? Sure he did good works, but one can do good works without spiritual enlightenment. Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while, and all.

Really, do you think that giving away worldly possessions, feeding the poor, and rescuing the Jews are spiritual avenues? Don't get me wrong, all are admirable things, but all are worldly avenues as well. Just as the opposite of love is not hatred, these things do not represent spirituality, but the objection to worldly pursuits.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by Sakhaiva on Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:07 pm

allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

Oh gods, this is a debate board, isn't it.....?

Have you ever seen me on a debate board? There is a reason my avatar on those other sights is a polar bear standing in a ring of blood.....

I've seen it, but I know the truth:

doooh.....

(That pix is from a site to help save the Polar Bear population btw)


Sakha: I'm a bit confused... how does Christianity fail to help people get in touch with the divine; of becoming at peace with the world, yourself and all of existence?

All: Let me answer that question with a question. I understand it can be a logical fallacy to make arguments personal, but how exactly have you become more in touch with what you call the divine? Have you personally experienced the one that you call god in some physically interactive sort of manner?

Yes. To quote Kahlil:

"And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.

Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.

And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.

You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees."


Sak:The one thing Christianity has offered me is peace. It's like a soothing balm for my worldly panic.

ALL:It may seem that way. Believing that someone or something else is in control and handing that control over to it will often have a calming effect. However, that is not real peace. It is not an understanding of the self, the divine, and one's relationship within it.

But it's not so much that I'm looking to hand life's responsibilities over to someone else.... to find a scape goat. I still have a plate full of things I must own up to; things to accomplish.

Goals, consequences and such.

It's that I can find stillness too.


Sak: Consider the writings of Brother Lawrence, the prayers attribute to St Francis. Christianity offers peace that passes understanding... which is a great relief.

All: I'm sorry, I'm not going to. I appear to have stumbled on to a Christianity debate board, and that is my bad, but I don't have any interest in going through Christian information anymore. I spent time learning what I don't believe, and why I don't believe it.

A lot of Christians don't read these things either. Too each his own. Smile

I think I'm going to move the topic of 'spiritual enlightenment' onto another board to expand the conversation. What do you think?
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:21 pm

Sakhaiva wrote:

I've seen it, but I know the truth:

doooh.....

(That pix is from a site to help save the Polar Bear population btw)


Are the two pictures contradictory?


Sakhaiva wrote:

Yes. To quote Kahlil:

"And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.

Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.

And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.

You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees."

You might well be the exception that proves the rule.....



Sakhaiva wrote:

But it's not so much that I'm looking to hand life's responsibilities over to someone else.... to find a scape goat. I still have a plate full of things I must own up to; things to accomplish.

Goals, consequences and such.

It's that I can find stillness too.

Do you have goals? Do you have things to accomplish?

Sakhaiva wrote:

A lot of Christians don't read these things either. Too each his own. Smile

I didn't say I didn't read them, just that I won't read them.

Sakhaiva wrote:
I think I'm going to move the topic of 'spiritual enlightenment' onto another board to expand the conversation. What do you think?

Sure.....
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by DeavonReye on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:43 am

I have a [relatively minor. . . . or perhaps moderate] way in which christianity, and its practices, are subconsiously hypocritical. Try to follow my thoughts:

It is common to hear ideologies about christians needing to "give everything over to God/Jesus". . . . and how "nothing else matters except for God/Jesus" . . . . and "it's all about God/Jesus". But really, there is a very self centered subconsious [or even consious] way that many [if not most] christians live their life. They may sing songs about "all I need is Jesus", . . . but they will make sure they have a nice house, nice cars, a flat screen TV with extended cable, etc. . . . . none of which are bad things. But those things, along with "all I need is Jesus", is hypocritical. It isn't the truth of what IS true.

Along with that, God/Jesus is supposed to be THE reason, yet I have to wonder how many people would actually BE a christian IF . . . . .there was no fear of Hell, or a similar undesireable afterlife? Would they be willing to do what many churches require? Would they offer their free time, working as a volunteer, . . . giving 10% of their hard earned check, etc. . . without that fear? Don't forget that there are a few places where is is commanded to "sell all you have, give to the poor". . . . . .

Just a thought. And not every sect of christianity can be lumped into what I stated.
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by AutumnalTone on Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:53 pm

Yes, most Christians are hypocritical. Deavon touched on it in his post. Most profess virtues to which they have, at best, a passing acquaintance. Most as are loving--their prime virtue--as a pit of vipers. Most show the moral development of a juvenile delinquent.

Christianity, as a belief system, is hypocritical. Beyond what All has posted, it purports to celebrate life and comfort while it obsesses and glories in suffering and death. It purports to offer succor to the living while telling them they are wretched and should accept a miserable existence. It purports to offer paradise in an afterlife after condemning everybody to hell for simply being human.

A non-hypocritical Christian would appear to be much the same as a virtuous non-Christian--and there would be no way to tell the two apart based on simple acquaintance.

People may focus on hypocritical Christians because that's pretty much all they see.
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by DotNotInOz on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:01 pm

One of the few people I've ever heard of whom I'd call a true Christian in the best sense of the label was the woman commonly known as Peace Pilgrim.

She spent decades walking across the U.S. as a personal pilgrimage for world peace and disarmament.

At the point in her life when she decided to embark upon her pilgrimage, she reduced her already somewhat minimal possessions to only the clothes on her back and a few other things such as a notebook and pencil. She determined after a spiritual reawakening to rely solely upon God's providence for her sustenance. She reliquished any reliance upon money, fasted until someone gave her food and often slept outdoors, on one cold night, I recall reading, under a pile of fallen leaves for warmth.

A rather detailed biography of her is available here: Peace Pilgrim biog
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by sacrificialgoddess on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:53 pm

You know, I had a conversation on facebook today that made me sick. It is one of those conversations I could point to when people ask me why Christians have a bad rep.

It starts out all holy rollerish, which is quite unattractive, I must say, and then proceeded to dismiss an entire group of people as "evil satanists." Of course I objected, pointing out that to generalize and dismiss was likely against the Golden Rule, since they wouldn't want someone to do that to them. Their response?

Well the group they were talking about was wrong, therefore evil, therefore it was all right.

No. No. and still more no. This is ugly. This is nonChristian have such problems with Christians. Because it is immoral. I don't care that you (generic) are all good Christians, that you always say that you aren't perfect, just forgiven, and then proceed to prove that you don't really believe that. Christians can be just as immoral as anyone else. And when you (again, generic) act like your shit don't stink, not only do you make yourself look bad, you make me think less of Christianity overall. Why? Because at the same time you are acting like your shit don't stink, you are all "If you become a Christian like me, your shit won't stink, either."

I don't play that game, and I don't appreciate it when others try to get me to play it.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:07 pm

I do believe we've seen this in action on this forum this week.

For the record, Sak, you are a wonderful Christian and a wonderful person. If you were Buddhist you'd be a wonderful Buddhist and if you were Muslim you'd be a wonderful Muslim. I think good people are often just good people, and they represent the good side of their faith and job and whatever else they project because that's how they are.

I believe that if everyone who called themselves Christian lived by the letters in red, no more no less, the faith and it's viewers wouldn't get such a bad rap. However, I have had enough "Christians" to last me two lifetimes. And that's unfortunate for everyone.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by gillyflower on Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:14 pm

Give the man a gold star! You are so right. Good people are good people no matter what their religion, including no religion, in my opinion. And it shines through. They are the ones who attract people to their religion.

These people who act badly towards others, who are abusive and self-righteous, and try to control others, who wants to be in their lives? They drive people away from both themselves and their religion. The only people they attract are those who are just as ugly inside as they are.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by Sakhaiva on Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:33 pm

DeavonReye wrote:It is common to hear ideologies about christians needing to "give everything over to God/Jesus". . . . and how "nothing else matters except for God/Jesus" . . . . and "it's all about God/Jesus". But really, there is a very self centered subconsious [or even consious] way that many [if not most] christians live their life. They may sing songs about "all I need is Jesus", . . . but they will make sure they have a nice house, nice cars, a flat screen TV with extended cable, etc. . . . . none of which are bad things. But those things, along with "all I need is Jesus", is hypocritical. It isn't the truth of what IS true.

In Lutheran circles, we use a term called the *Prosperity Gospel* to describe the above. Think Joel Osteen. Personally I find *do good and you will be blessed* to be a form of cheap grace.

The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike.

There are Christians I know, first hand, who, when they sing "All I Need Is Jesus" they mean it in ways deeper than I could write. These are people who've lived some pretty challenging lives as well... always an interesting connection.

Along with that, God/Jesus is supposed to be THE reason, yet I have to wonder how many people would actually BE a christian IF . . . . .there was no fear of Hell, or a similar undesirable afterlife? Would they be willing to do what many churches require? Would they offer their free time, working as a volunteer, . . . giving 10% of their hard earned check, etc. . . without that fear? Don't forget that there are a few places where is is commanded to "sell all you have, give to the poor"

While some groups of people might go for the fear tactic... it's good to remember that it's only 'some' and by no means 'most' or 'all'. I know you've been raised A/G... which came from the Holiness movement. It's a different kettle of fish than what I was raised with because, while John Wesley taught about 'sanctification' (perfection)... Luther's teachings were different. Rereading what you wrote above, I am reminded of something he said:

Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.


We don't do 'this' or 'that' because of 'this' or 'that' ... we do what we do because it's who we are. Accepted. Loved. And, yes, even forgiven.

Even if we're totally imperfect (like Martin Luther) (He was, like any of us, a creature of his Place and Time)






Just a thought. And not every sect of christianity can be lumped into what I stated.
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by Sakhaiva on Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:44 pm

TigersEyeDowsing wrote:I do believe we've seen this in action on this forum this week.

For the record, Sak, you are a wonderful Christian and a wonderful person. If you were Buddhist you'd be a wonderful Buddhist and if you were Muslim you'd be a wonderful Muslim. I think good people are often just good people, and they represent the good side of their faith and job and whatever else they project because that's how they are.

That is very kind of you TED. There is a core belief that, I think, can be found in most religions... people who, according to OT terms, have *the Law* written on their hearts. I think this jives with what you just wrote.

I believe that if everyone who called themselves Christian lived by the letters in red, no more no less, the faith and it's viewers wouldn't get such a bad rap. However, I have had enough "Christians" to last me two lifetimes. And that's unfortunate for everyone.

I'm really sorry to hear it TED.. may the rest of your long life demonstrate the opposite Smile Balance things out a little.

I wonder if people's judgmentalishness has less to do with trying to live out their faith, and more to do with being afraid of saying "I Don't Know"

To me, the ability to say 'you know... I really don't know' has a tremendous amount of power.

gillyflower wrote:Give the man a gold star! You are so right. Good people are good people no matter what their religion, including no religion, in my opinion. And it shines through. They are the ones who attract people to their religion.

These people who act badly towards others, who are abusive and self-righteous, and try to control others, who wants to be in their lives? They drive people away from both themselves and their religion. The only people they attract are those who are just as ugly inside as they are.

That is excellent food for though for all of us Gilly. Well said Smile
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by TigersEyeDowsing on Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:43 am

Sakhaiva wrote:
TigersEyeDowsing wrote:I do believe we've seen this in action on this forum this week.

For the record, Sak, you are a wonderful Christian and a wonderful person. If you were Buddhist you'd be a wonderful Buddhist and if you were Muslim you'd be a wonderful Muslim. I think good people are often just good people, and they represent the good side of their faith and job and whatever else they project because that's how they are.

That is very kind of you TED. There is a core belief that, I think, can be found in most religions... people who, according to OT terms, have *the Law* written on their hearts. I think this jives with what you just wrote.

Makes sense to me.

I believe that if everyone who called themselves Christian lived by the letters in red, no more no less, the faith and it's viewers wouldn't get such a bad rap. However, I have had enough "Christians" to last me two lifetimes. And that's unfortunate for everyone.

I'm really sorry to hear it TED.. may the rest of your long life demonstrate the opposite Balance things out a little.

I wonder if people's judgmentalishness has less to do with trying to live out their faith, and more to do with being afraid of saying "I Don't Know"

To me, the ability to say 'you know... I really don't know' has a tremendous amount of power.

I think that's called "humility". Smile

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:01 pm

I've been wondering about this for a while actually. I don't mean to derail the thread, but....



gillyflower wrote:Give the man a gold star! You are so right. Good people are good people no matter what their religion, including no religion, in my opinion. And it shines through. They are the ones who attract people to their religion.

These people who act badly towards others, who are abusive and self-righteous, and try to control others, who wants to be in their lives? They drive people away from both themselves and their religion. The only people they attract are those who are just as ugly inside as they are.


I've been wondering about this. Are people really attracted to other religions because of other people? I've said this too, but I wonder if it is more just a response to some Christians seeming desire to win more converts by words.

What would be the character of a person swayed to become religious, or to examine a religion because of a person?

I think the real problem is that those who are lost, afraid, and ugly inside, will attract those that are lost afraid and ugly, while those that are whole and good will be unswayed from their position regardless of what other humans do or say.

I think the ones that we wish would win converts wouldn't, and wouldn't even look for them in the first place.

That is probably one of the biggest problems that I have with Christianity. The going out and looking for people to turn. The most, the loudest, the most vocal, of them are really the blind leading the blind.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by gillyflower on Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:31 pm

A woman I walk with is Christian and she was discussing her search for a church. Granted that she was not looking outside the Christian faith, but still. She was looking because she moved here two years ago and about a year ago she lost her husband. She said in their old town they were Methodist because it was close to their house, her husband liked it and they had a good social group of couples. Here she tried an Evangelical church because one of her sons went to it but she didn't like the music, didn't feel comfortable there. Then she went to a small Baptist church that another son went to and she liked the people there and the music better but now the son had moved and she was moving on, too. It was a little too far away and wasn't big enough to have the amount of activities that she wanted. She is looking for new ideas of places to go.

I noticed that she didn't say one thing about beliefs. She tried churches because of the people (in this case family) and the things that were important to her were music and activities and liking the people.

She seems to be a social Christian. Around here, the only groups that offer a lot of activities are the Christian or Jewish religions. I don't know if she found a group of people that she liked, who had an active social calendar and were close by if she'd consider learning about a new religion. Maybe, maybe not. But she is definitely open to learning about different sects within Christianity based upon the people.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:31 pm

Hm. I didn't think of the "social" aspect. I'm not really a social person, so I never considered it.

Sometimes I forget about the social aspect all together.
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by DotNotInOz on Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:17 pm

When I said something to my stepgrandmother once about wanting to find a church, she advised me to pick one where I liked the people. Ministers come and go, she said, but people in small towns generally establish membership with a church and stay with it.

I thought that was a peculiar way to choose a church myself. But then, she was far more social than I am, so perhaps congenial people was her priority.

I'd want a church with beliefs I could subscribe to. Otherwise, I'd feel like a hypocrite sitting there not believing what was professed.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by AutumnalTone on Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:16 pm

gillyflower wrote:
I noticed that she didn't say one thing about beliefs. She tried churches because of the people (in this case family) and the things that were important to her were music and activities and liking the people.

The sociologists of religion offer data that supports that. The single most effective conversion process involves social activities. If you can get somebody to come to a church social event and they have a good experience, they're highly likely to attend your church. If they like the people and feel comfortable with the church community, then they'll stay and convert. Theology typically has nothing to do with conversion.

How do sects like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons make most of their converts? They're very nice people. That leads some folks to attend some random church activity where there are lots of nice, welcoming people. It's only after somebody begins to identify with the social group that they learn the weird things and the weird things are acceptable because of the identification with the social group that practices the weirdness.
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by DeavonReye on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:36 am

Oh, most DEFINITELY, there is a HUGE social factor to churches. The "safety in numbers" type of thinking. Then, along with that, there is the "peer pressure" part of that social network. If your friends are raising their hands, praying loudly, giving their tithes, . . . you will feel "outside the circle" if you don't do these things too.

I have a chapter in the book I just wrote [I had to go through Lulu.com out of frustration of finding an agent/publisher]. I have seen this type of social input in all of my christian days. There is a security in churches. It is a place where people can find others to be friends with. Since I left the church, I have had no luck in actually finding friends. The church has a bunch of people in it, segregate them into classes [as in age groups] and there you go, immediate "friend pool". And people with like mindedness.

It makes you wonder if a person would be there without this need! If, by SOME odd occurance, no one was ever able to obtain this social groupings in a religion, . . . would they be so influenced? That goes for the music as well. Music [TYPE of music, that is] is a huge factor in someone going to a church. In my former church, it was very up to date music. Would the people go there if only hymns, accompanied by an organ, was the only choice? No! Therefore, this is another aspect of the social thing. A bunch of people boppin' to the same beat together.
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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by gillyflower on Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:05 am

It is a real shame that clubs have gone out of fashion although for some it is still alive and well in the South. My mother belonged to a garden club, a bridge club, a rose society, and wives club, in different areas she belonged to CDA and a woman's club and others. She made me belong to clubs too for children and young people. My s-i-l belongs to a book club, bridge, supper club, bible study and crew for Mardi Gras. Right now I belong to a writer's group. The people at work are big into Eastern Star. My father was into Rotary and other clubs.

We keep a listing of clubs and organizations at the library. It is an excellent way to meet other people with similar interests and make friends and have a social life without having to join a church.

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Re: The Non-Hypocritical Christian

Post by allthegoodnamesweretaken on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:01 pm

This social aspect is completely alien to me.

I guess I've been alone with my ideas to long.
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